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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: 2 Frazzled on May 02, 2013, 06:41:01 pm



Title: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 02, 2013, 06:41:01 pm
HELP!!!! As we left the factory yesterday we discovered the truck/cab had no AC. The guys had already gone for the day so we rolled back to the factory this morning and they were able to fix it. However, half way back to Shipshewana, right about the time we hit 50 mph,we started getting a vibrating noise from the lower dash area. We pushed, pulled and checked what we  would could, then called the factory... and headed back again. Bobby confirmed the problem, checked everything and pulled the engine cover console thing and finally decided it was probably the engine.The Ford rep they work with said we should take it to a dealer. It seems to run fine so we are hoping to wait until we get back to Maryland.

Has anyone had a similar problem? It starts vibrating a bit then gets louder then hits its stride and stays there. Turning the radio up does not cover the noise.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: Barry-Sue on May 02, 2013, 08:05:45 pm
John and Holly,

    If you could stay in Indiana and let the Ford dealer that sold the cab to Phoenix Cruiser check it out, I think you would be better served.  That might not be possible if you are in a time crunch.  I would hate to see you get stranded on the road on the way back to Maryland.  I will send you a private email.


Sue


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: TomHanlon on May 03, 2013, 08:11:45 am
If you can get to the Indiana dealer, do it. They are much more accustom to dealing with motorhomes than most of the dealer here in Maryland. I think the closes dealer that will work on motorhomes to where you live is in Frederick. The ford dealer in Mt. Airy worked on my 2350 and said they might be able to work on my 2552 but they have not seen it yet. Besides their parking lot is so packed with cars that it scars me to drive into the dealer lot. Not all Ford dealers will work on motorhomes, even our little PCs.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 03, 2013, 08:46:34 am
Sue and Tom, we are going with your suggestions and are waiting for Phoenix to open to make the call. We might roll out and sit on the doorstep again. We'll do whatever is needed but I hope they don't have to keep it for days. We've already become quite attached to it.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: gradygal on May 03, 2013, 09:19:32 am
You made the right decision!

Judi


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: TomHanlon on May 04, 2013, 07:40:34 am
So what happened? What was the problem and was it fixed?
 pyho


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 04, 2013, 08:00:15 am
We finally made it out of Indiana! We spent yesterday at the Ford dealer in Mishawaka or something. At first they said it sounded like something was loose in the bell housing - not the transmission itself but a loose screw or bolt or metal plate. So their transmission guy took it for a ride and said no, he thinks it is outside the housing and sounds like possibly a bolt or something loose between the heat shield and engine or just a loose shield altogether. Once it gets to a certain RPM (cruising speed) it gets going.  They could not get us in for service until next Thursday so the final diagnosis was they believe it to be safe to drive but it will be annoying as hell (their words).

So we just finished our first leg of the return trip and are stuck finding someone closer to home to work on it. John is driving for now and seemed moderately sane after 5 hours of engine song so we are somewhat good to go.

Signing off: STILL 2 Frazzled but now with a couple of screws loose.

P.S. We LOVE our PC!


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: Bob Mahon on May 04, 2013, 11:53:16 am
I'd suggest you have a look at the heat shield below the cabin and bedroom. It's a fairly long sheet metal piece and I had to brace mine with angle-iron pop-riveted into place to kill a noise.
Good luck.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: Sparky on May 10, 2013, 05:51:58 pm
Please do not take this wrong, I am making a general observation after reading 100's of posting on many different forums.   One reason I like buying a used unit (besides the money haha) is it normally has been debugged. The previous owner of our unit had numerous repair bills from his first few months of owning this unit and getting it debugged.  When you purchase a used unit, hopefully you had a consciousness owner who kept records. Then your able to go over the unit yourself and see that everything is in working order and off you go.   It seems every new owner has a list of problems and take cares to do. I know a lot of new owners go the dealer, factory pick up their unit stay a day or two, then drive home.   If I ever buy a brand new unit or recommend to someone buying new, here is what I would do.
   Plan at least a week. pick up the unit and take off for couple of days camping in the new unit. Do a lot of short runs, stop and camp, and repeat. Try and put around a 1000 miles on the unit.Then give yourself couple of days  to run back to the factory/dealer to debug/fix some of the problems.  Realize that this would not be the greatest trip in the world, but man there seems to be some work to do on these units to get them at 100%.  From my reading one thing about the PC people, it seems that the after service they provide is fantastic.  But the owner has to go through a pain the rear to get these things done at the factory or the dealer.  I do not what they recommend at the factoryor the dealer for the new owners when they come in to pick up their unit.  BTW, I am not limiting this to just Cruisers, I had a roadtrek and saw the same problem with new units. Hopefully some of the new owners will chime in and give their thoughts on this subject.
 Congrats on your new unit, I'm jealous
David Sparks
2008 PC 2350 nosld (and debugged haha)
Houston

PS.  I did have a lot to learn and few minor fix it ups. More of maintenance stuff, but nothing that caused trips to the RV repair shop. The new owner of this went to the dealer 7/8 times to get things taken care of under warranty.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: billy on May 14, 2013, 12:31:09 pm
I worked for a chevy dealership,when we were slow I was the chosen one who looked for squeaks and rattles. One owner had a rattle under the dash. I spent 30 minutes  looking but I could find no rattle. Got another mechanic to drive while I was on my back, up under the dash, but no rattle. Back to the shop. As I was walking up to find the customer the service writer stop me and asked, What's up. Told him the entire story and wanted to talk to the owner, maybe he could help. At that time the service writer said, he can't help, why I ask? Because he's deaf! So I asked how did he hear it, a friend told him. As calmly as I could, I signed off the job and said, tell him it's fixed.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: frecklestweety on May 14, 2013, 05:10:41 pm
Recently heard a noise just above the entertainment stereo and thought it was something in the cabinet.  What I found out when we were riding that the noise was the ariel hitting the roof and felt the vibrations when I put my hand on the ceiling as my friend was driv ing.  So I bought felt pads and put them on the rubber feet of the ariel and will see if that helps when I go out next time.  I will keep you posted.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on June 06, 2013, 08:51:29 am
Update on our noise. We took it to the local Ford "big truck" shop and they kept it two days before telling us "what noise?" It's a truck. Trucks make noise. John drove down, took them for a test drive, waited till she started singing, then said THAT noise. OH, THAT noise; OK we'll look at it; we may call Ford to see if this is normal for the V10 engine.

The PC has been there another two days and we hope to have an answer by noon today but I have a feeling they won't have fixed anything. We told them we need it to camp in tonight and asked if it would be fixed. Their answer; well, it will be ready to pick up either way... implying a good chance there will be no fix. I LOVE car dealer repair shops. We should have cancelled our local appointments back in May and camped out at the Ford dealer in Indiana to wait out the week until they could look at it.

We are going back through Elkhart in July so we may book an appointment with the Ford dealer there and see if they can quiet her down a bit. At least they know what the engine is SUPPOSED to sound like. What noise, indeed.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: BarbRN on June 06, 2013, 09:18:36 am
Update on our noise. We took it to the local Ford "big truck" shop and they kept it two days before telling us "what noise?" It's a truck. Trucks make noise. John drove down, took them for a test drive, waited till she started singing, then said THAT noise. OH, THAT noise; OK we'll look at it; we may call Ford to see if this is normal for the V10 engine.

The PC has been there another two days and we hope to have an answer by noon today but I have a feeling they won't have fixed anything. We told them we need it to camp in tonight and asked if it would be fixed. Their answer; well, it will be ready to pick up either way... implying a good chance there will be no fix. I LOVE car dealer repair shops. We should have cancelled our local appointments back in May and camped out at the Ford dealer in Indiana to wait out the week until they could look at it.

We are going back through Elkhart in July so we may book an appointment with the Ford dealer there and see if they can quiet her down a bit. At least they know what the engine is SUPPOSED to sound like. What noise, indeed.

I feel your pain. 


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 13, 2013, 09:53:34 pm
I have a sense of deja vu. Here I sit at Shipshewana campground north typing about our vibration noise. We have around 6,500 miles on our PC and she sang for most of them. John and I have become adept at screaming to each other when on the road. We still can't hear the other one, but we keep trying. Thank goodness we have an onboard bathroom as I'd never get him to stop just by yelling.

So, we've spent the last two days in Mishawaka while the Ford guys drove her, jacked her up and revved the engine and tapped on all her parts and felt for vibrations.  They've come full circle and think the noise may be coming from the transmission bell housing, which is what the first guy that looked at it thought back in May. They have a call in to Ford Motors to see if they can shed any light on the problem and I think to get the authorization to start tearing her apart.

While we wait for that response we'll stop by the factory and see if they can diagnose the cause of a water leak that came up last week. There was a heavy storm while we were out of the rig and we got a good amount of water on the floor behind the cab seats... enough to fry a computer and soak all our work papers. John was able to recover from the blue screen of death and we dried mine before turning it on. So far so good... computer wise. Not so great repair wise.

I know a few other people have had similar problems and I will post the solutions when we have them.  Until then, John, Snickers and I can be found hanging out on random park benches in Indiana.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: GoPhoenix on September 14, 2013, 07:34:39 am
We had a problem with water coming under the slide in very heavy rain when parked and with the slide out.  With jacks, the solution is easy.  When level, tilt ever so slightly to the driver’s side.  The indicators still show level.  No leak.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: BGolden on September 14, 2013, 10:14:15 am
My Dear Frazzled 1.....while living on the park bench in Indiana be sure that the other Frazzled 1 is comfortable, but by all means see that Snickers is well protected.  We cat lovers must take care of kiities


Bill G


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 18, 2013, 05:03:19 pm
Here is the promised update: Jordan Ford had her for three full work days. Today they pulled a panel off the transmission to see if the noise resonated louder through that port. No change. They checked a few more things recommended by Ford manufacturing then made the tough call to us. The answer is they don't know. They've run all the tests. They've checked everything anyone can think of. They are done. After a full week of going back and forth, several days of working on park benches and a few random nights in hotels, we pick her up tomorrow with no resolution. We are going to request a copy of the full write up that they are putting in the system.

The only upside is that it looks like we'll get out of Indiana before it starts to snow. We weren't sure for a while there. We spoke to Kermit and he is going to take it for a test drive tomorrow just to make doubly sure it isn't due to anything Phoenix put on the chassis. It does appear that we may be stuck with the noise forever. Not our best day.

Eventually we head west for a quick family visit in Ohio then on to Gettysburg to try to get the SMI break assist fixed. It worked for less than an hour before it blew its fuse. When we replaced the fuse it started making all kinds of noise when we tested the turn signals etc. We figure they wired something wrong so we are running with it off for now.

Some day we'll laugh at all this... l hope.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: Sparky on September 18, 2013, 06:59:51 pm
thanks for the update,,, I am assuming that when Ford tested noise still present,,, hoping it was one of those noises when you take to the dealer can not find it, then it goes away,,,, shoot do not know what to say...
sparky


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 18, 2013, 07:42:46 pm
They don't deny the noise. In fact they verbally described it as annoying as hell. They just can't find the cause. One comment made was that maybe all PCs built on the E450 make the same noise but we know from the responses here that it's not the norm. Yes it's a truck. There is wind noise. The engine is loud. But nobody else has mentioned a fairly loud additional vibration noise that starts when you get up to speed and then stays, and stays, and stays.

If we ever find the cause we'll post it here in case someone else has the same problem. We're secretly hoping Kermit is a Ford savant and instinctively knows what is wrong and how to fix it. Sort of an "Obi Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope".

Hey we can dream, can't we?


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: skipper on September 19, 2013, 01:45:42 pm
At what speed does the vibration start and it is engine rpm dependent or speed dependent?  And once it starts, does it diminish or get worse as speed increases or remain the same even as speed changes?


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: ragoodsp on September 19, 2013, 03:53:53 pm
If I had such a noise I would make either Ford or PC or both trade me out of the unit.  For  what you paid for the coach you should not have to put up with such a noise for any reason.  Negotiate with Kermit for MSRP against MSRP and get out of the coach.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: lmichael on September 19, 2013, 09:56:00 pm
Just a last straw thought--could the noise be caused by the tires being out of round?  Tires are not truly round, and sometimes on cars they cause vibrations until they are trued up or replaced..??


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: gradygal on September 20, 2013, 08:32:31 am
I agree with Ron--you have a new unit. I wouldn't put up with a noise that cannot be fixed. If Kermit can't help to diagnose the problem and get it fixed, then trade out of the coach!

Judi


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: ron.dittmer on September 20, 2013, 01:22:48 pm
If that were my coach, I'd try playing doctor myself.

Remove the engine cover and have someone else drive the vehicle.  Get that noise to occur and listen around.  If there is simply too much residual noise, use a mechanic's stethiscope and listen around.  They are sold cheap at auto part stores like Napa, Auto Zone, O'Reilly's etc.  They work by placing the end on metal and listen for the noise through it.  Place the end on various mechanical things that you can reach.  I think you may be able to lengthen the hose using an extention tube to reach more places.

Also use a vacuum cleaner hose, one end to your ear, the other end to various places around where you can safely reach while the vehicle is in motion.  My vacuum cleaner hose has bailed me out a few times with a good diagnosis.  But I never tried what I am suggesting you try.

Safety First
Good Luck


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: Bob Mahon on September 20, 2013, 02:11:10 pm
Another thought:
I had a bad vibration in a new car. The faster I went, the worse it got. It took a bit of complaining but the dealer finally pulled the shaft and verified it was out of balance. After the shaft was removed, sent out for balancing and re-installed, the vibration was gone.
Your PC has an intermediate bearing, which means 2 sections of drive shaft. Take a look at both sections to see if one of the balancing weights that are usually welded to it (which can be anywhere along it's length) have fallen off. If so, you should see where it was initially welded, which would be a Ford warranty issue.

Good luck with this.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: yankeeflyer on September 20, 2013, 03:21:23 pm
I agree Bob,had the same problem on another vehicle and it was the driveshaft out of balance!  (exactly)


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 21, 2013, 09:32:20 pm
We made it out of Indiana! Obi Wan did the test drive but did not hear the noise… He was able to get a thick rubber mat for us that covers the entire cab floor. Bobby installed it over the carpet with the hope that it would deaden the sound. John thinks it did but I’m not so sure. I haven’t driven her yet and the noise is loudest in the driver’s seat so he may be the best judge. The floor mat does, however, deaden some of the other noises in the cab so that the combined noise level is tolerable and we can have an actual conversation without screaming. As a bonus, the insulated mat reduces the heat radiating up through that floor and will be so much easier to clean.

We do appreciate everyone’s efforts in trying to help resolve this issue. We figure we’re stuck with it and will either get used to it or gradually lose the ability to hear that frequency so we won’t care anymore. Maybe it will help keep us from driving too many hours a day. I can’t even think what it would take to trade in the coach. Phoenix did so many mods for us to make it work the way we need it and it is awesome in so many ways, I can’t imagine starting over.

Jordon Ford did a ton of tests which included putting sensors on the rig in different places to locate the noise. They tested the back, no noise. The center, no noise. The front up under the engine – NOISE. They checked everything they thought could spin or vibrate and make the noise. They even pulled out some valve and ran her to see if she made the noise without it – yes. They jacked up her rear end and ran her until she made the noise then threw her into neutral and turned her off and the noise continued for several seconds. They simply ran out things they could test. We feel they did far more than most dealers would do. Apparently they don’t get paid for the three days of work (with multiple techs). Ford doesn’t pay because nothing was found to be “wrong” with the truck. They can’t charge Phoenix because there is no indication it is anything they did. They didn’t charge us because we brought it in for a warranty problem (a noise they could all hear) and they couldn’t fix it. To top off this great customer service, Jeff the assistant service manager told us to bring it back if anything started acting up and that they would stand behind us if our warranty expired and then the noise manifested itself into a problem that needed repair. They documented everything to show that the problem existed when we bought it.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 21, 2013, 09:37:57 pm
At what speed does the vibration start and it is engine rpm dependent or speed dependent?  And once it starts, does it diminish or get worse as speed increases or remain the same even as speed changes?
Skipper, she starts singing around 50mph. She very quickly reaches a steady rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr noise that doesn't seem to change with speed. You can, however, hear it better when you lift off the gas. When you drop back under 50 or so, it stops. Jordan Ford jacked her up and "drove" that way and said under those conditions, the noise starts around 45 mph.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: Pax on September 21, 2013, 10:09:26 pm
 We will be getting our new 2552 in a few weeks, so I'll be sure to do two things:  1) Have the delivery person (dunno who that will be yet) check for the noise at those and other speeds, and 2) We will also check when we take delivery.  I'll report back our findings.

 - Mike


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: ron.dittmer on September 22, 2013, 12:08:55 am
The front up under the engine – NOISE.

They jacked up her rear end and ran her until she made the noise then threw her into neutral and turned her off and the noise continued for several seconds.
Jordon Ford really did some great research.  In Neutral with engine off, the noise continued until the drive train got below that 50 mph mark.  That rules out everything forward of the transmission.  But the noise came from under the engine.  That implies the noise is originating in the transmission and resonating through the engine.

I would rule out anything related to the engine, also because the noise is not heard in lower gears at high rpm.

It sounds like a transmission matter.  I wonder if you had a full transmission flush done by a Ford dealer, if it would flush out the trouble.  Maybe there is something inside that could be maniputated (made quiet) when flushing the transmission.  Just throwing out possibilities here.

We once had a car with a power steering pump that went bad by vibrating loud.  We replaced the pump and all was fine thereafter.  But if your power steering pump was bad, you would get the noise at high RPMs in lower gears as well.  Therefore I rule that out as a possibility.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 22, 2013, 07:29:34 am
Ron, they originally thought transmission, then thought elsewhere, then narrowed it back down to the transmission. However, they pulled an access panel on the transmission housing to see if the noise then resonated louder through that opening and the answer was no. They actually were hoping it would since that would give them something to fix. They were bummed they couldn't conquer the problem and felt they failed.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: ron.dittmer on September 22, 2013, 10:22:14 am
I understand.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: lghjr on September 22, 2013, 12:31:22 pm
Is it a maybe that the drive shafts are miss timed by the universal joints being 90° out of sync?  Happened to me once on a toad when I put the drive shaft back in wrong after towing.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: skipper on September 22, 2013, 10:48:58 pm
Tell me about the rubber mat they installed.  I think I could use one of those.  Mark


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: TomHanlon on September 23, 2013, 03:41:33 pm
Hey Holly, it might be those little worry worts screaming as they come off you. The more you RV and drive the more worry worts come off.  :lol

You might try taking a glass, turn it upside down and set it on the floor while John is driving. Put your ear on the bottom of the glass and listen for the noise. Next move the glass a couple of inches down the motorhome and listen again. Did the noise get louder or softer? Keep doing this, trying to pin point where the noise is the loudest.  It might help to know where the noise is coming from. Even if it doesn't help someone, I am sure it will have John and the cat in stitches.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: ron.dittmer on September 23, 2013, 03:59:59 pm
Tom, I like your idea.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: skipper on September 23, 2013, 06:06:53 pm
I have a vibration in my 2552 that I can feel and hear in the seat of my pants b/w 60 and 65 mph.  I had the tires balanced and it didn't help.  Today, I had a mechanic from the tire store (they do brakes, exhaust and other work) ride with me and he moved around the cabin as I drove.  He isolated the vibration to the front of the vehicle and he thinks it is a driveline issue.  The recommendation is to take it to my ford dealer and let him troubleshoot it.  I'll work on that next week.  He continued to say that if I can't get satisfaction from the ford dealer (hopefully under warranty), bring it back and they had a mechanic that would hookup sensors to the underbelly and he would monitor the vibration on a computer as it was driven.  If they can do it here in podunkville, they can do it where you live.  Maybe something to check out.  Mark


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 24, 2013, 05:50:10 pm
OK, I appreciate all the suggestions BUT: Ron - I am not sticking my head in the engine compartment with a vacuum cleaner hose... and Tom - I am not crawling around the floor with a drinking glass. I have no doubt photos of either of those endeavors would wind up on this forum for the amusement of all. As for the stethoscope... John would likely just want to play doctor and while it would surely be fun, we'd get nowhere with the engine noise.

I'm going to put my money on Mark and his mechanic. If they figure it out, he'll post it here and we'll see if we have the same thing. AND we plan to be wandering in Florida a few months from now and we sure as heck would be willing to drive to "Podunkville" if that's what it takes to get it fixed.



Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: TomHanlon on September 25, 2013, 09:43:02 am
How about having John do the glass thing while you drive and take pictures for us? :-D


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: 2 Frazzled on September 25, 2013, 07:23:26 pm
How about having John do the glass thing while you drive and take pictures for us? :-D

It's a plan. I'll post them when I get them.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: ragoodsp on September 27, 2013, 10:09:09 am
I had some rattles around the heat shield that runs the length of the coach...I discovered (and can now see even more clearly in Earl's construction piece) the aluminium "stiffner" that is screwed from the top down, it comes loose with the heat and rough roads and rattles like mad, I have screwed up thru the sheet steel into the square stock with some self tapping lags and have stopped all of the rattling,  atleast for now. Not sure why PC does not tack weld apiece of angle vs's the way they have done it?....If you reach above the shield mid ship you will feel the 1"x1"  square stock, if it is loose it may be what is the sourse of many rattles you are hearing in the cab.  Thanks, Ron


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: Bob Mahon on September 27, 2013, 11:18:50 am
Our 2552 had a "boinging" when hitting a bump that drove me nuts. I took a piece of 1" X 1" X 36" angle iron, placed it at an angle across the opposite lengthwise corners of the heat shield and bolted/riveted it in place. Noise gone.
Just had the PC serviced and looked at the bolts/rivets, all are still tight.
One things certain; if it gets loose I'll either hear a loud rattle or the "boinging" will come back.


Title: Re: Vvvvvvvvvvibration Noise
Post by: BarbRN on September 29, 2013, 11:39:54 pm
When we picked up our used 2010 Phoenix from Lazy Days, it was fine, we had taken it in for alignment.  On the way home, we got this loud vibration only after we hit about 55-65 mph They checked it and think it's that heat shield too.  Then My DH found a rubber/plastic diverter in the grill area, and he moved it back in where it belongs.  We haven't had a chance to test it yet.