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1  Main Forum / General Discussion / Water pump failure on: August 23, 2017, 09:11:55 am
In a post a few months ago, I was discussing our "rattling pipes" and how I had traced the pipes and made sure they were not knocking each other when the water pump was activated.   Well, it got worse with time.

Boy, was I dumb!!   I should have known better. 

Turns out it was the water pump beginning to fail.   We just got back from a three week trip in the mountains of Colorado and New Mexico.  About five days into the trip, the water pump started making a terrible racket and the pipes sounded like they were coming apart.   To make a long story short, the pump failed.   Now, in a 2350 the pump is located next to the fresh tank under the bed and access is gained by removing the mattress and opening a large hatch.   There are two hatches and each is half the size of the mattress and thus you can gain complete access to all the things built in under the bed. 

Incredibly, in a town of a few hundred people within ten miles of our camp in the national forest I found an auto parts store that carried a limited amount of rv supplies.   Would you believe they actually had a Shurflow pump almost identical to the failed one!  One only.  I bought that baby, installed it and now all is well with no more noise or rattling. 

Think about inspecting your pump.   What occurred with ours was that the torque of the motor coming on and going off had caused the pump to wallow out the threads on the head of the motor where the pump and motor come together.     There are six or eight (?) filbert headed bolts  on the face of the pump that screw into the motor head.   I couldn't believe how small the bolts were in diameter.  I think they were only 5/32 fine threads about 1.75 inches long.   The design is very poor in my opinion because logic would tell you larger bolts should have been utilized.

In any event, I kept the old pump and plan on drilling out and oversizing the bolt holes.  I will drill out the old threads and drill through the motor mount and install larger bolts using nuts and lock washers, not just rethreading the relatively soft metal of the motor's head.    That should fix the pump and I will carry it as a spare.

It just seems -regardless of brand-  everything is made cheaper and of poorer quality in the last few years.    We all love cheap until you have a failure. 

Check the bolts that assemble your pump/motor unit.   Make sure they are tight and not working loose.   

2  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: News from "The Mothership" location on: June 25, 2017, 09:57:42 am
Thanks for the very interesting Reuters link.   The RV industry is really a microcosm of what is generally happening across our country.   Lucky for us that we own RVs made by a small company that can better select its employees and is not subject to a fraction of a penny increase in per share earnings being the talisman that determines every step of every day. 

As I read this article (and having owned two Class B rigs made in Canada) I wondered if the general superiority of rv manufacturers like Pleasure Way, Leisure Travel and Roadtrek could be partly due to the fact that the labor laws and general attitudes are different across the border?   I don't propose an answer to that question, I just find the question interesting.

If as the article states, turnover is often over 100% (supposedly because of pay and working conditions) you gotta assume that quality is lower in those companies.  I would think that would be particularly true in those companies that have recently been acquired.  The pressure will be on for more, more, more and cost reduction, cost reduction, cost reduction. 

3  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Did you upsize from a class B? on: June 18, 2017, 07:30:36 am
Tom, I have had some problems with my computer and don't apparently have a copy of my two private messages to you regarding this topic.  Please feel free to copy and post my messages if you think they might be helpful to someone.  Meanwhile, I am running tests to try and figure out what happened to my private message response copies. 

4  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Did you upsize from a class B? on: June 16, 2017, 08:07:00 pm
Tom, that's us!   Our first RV was an old 1977(I think) Delta Class C.  We bought it in 1982 and traded it in 84 or 5 for an Intervec Horizon, the kid sister to the Falcon.  They were made, as most on this forum are aware, by a company that later evolved in Phoenix Cruiser.  We later bought a 1996 Roadtrek 190P brand spanking new.  Then, in 2003 I think it was, we bought a new "B+", a Gulfstream BT Cruiser about 24 feet long, just the size of our PC 2350.   In 2007 we traded it on a new Roadtrek 210P and kept it until we bought the Phoenix Cruiser 2350 we currently own and that purchase was in September 2013.   

We moved from the Roadtrek 210P to the PC2350 because we wanted to camp for extended periods of time in one place and the PC was perfect for that purpose.  Interestingly enough, the usable exterior storage on the RT was superior to our PC and we had about the same amount of storage inside in both units.   The dry bath was a major consideration for us.  The black tank on the RT was 10 gallons and it is 35 on our PC.   

Laying in our corner bed in the 2350, my wife laughed and said it looked like fifty yards to the windshield of the PC!   We just spent almost three weeks in the PC boondocking and living on carried water and solar.  That would be tough in a B but we have done it in the past, you just have to make a few trips somewhere to dump. 

I suspect, honestly, there is another B in our future.  We store the PC about three miles away from our home in a rented enclosed storage unit.  Our home has a garage with a nine foot door that will accommodate a small B.  It is incredibly convenient to walk out into the garage and have your rig sitting there, as Ron does on this forum with his PC2350.  We can't do that with ours because of the height. 

We enjoy the dry bath, the real stand up room in the PC and we enjoy the space in the PC.   We tow and that can get old to me.  You gotta plan every gas refill, every situation and you have to really be careful at all times.   Driving a B is like driving a Chevy Suburban or equivalent. 

I think in a few years we will buy another B and take some time to travel completely around the USA and Canada before we get so darned old you can't do that anymore.   The ability to just "whip into" a restaurant, an attraction, etc. is a done deal with a B and a challenge often with a C towing something IMO.   But, man we would really miss the room and the dry bath.   

Camp:  get a C.   Tour:  consider a B.   Having had three of each and switched back and forth we know the advantages of both pretty well.   A B is a van and drives like such.  A C is a truck and drives like a truck.   

You pose an interesting question for discussion.  I will be interested to see the responses.

5  Main Forum / General Discussion / I feel out of place because nothing is wrong with my PC! on: June 14, 2017, 08:15:37 pm
We just got back from a nearly three week trip to New Mexico and Colorado.  As I read this and other RV forums, I almost feel out of place because nothing has gone wrong with our PC2350!  We will soon have owned it for four years and except for a few minor things like the door switch, adjusting the pitch of the mount of the Sanicom pump, etc. all is well.   We recently had a 2.9 inch rain overnight camping and no leaks.  No wind intrusion.  Nothin'!

I guess we are just lucky but we really enjoy our PC and appreciate its trouble free performance.  Minor things like replacing a few faulty cabinet latches, isolating a couple of pipes so they don't bang against the floor when the pump is running just don't seem significant to me.   

We came home Monday and drove 562 miles in one day pulling a Jeep Trailhawk, including over a 10,000 foot pass.  No problems except I was one tired old goat when we pulled into our driveway, but I didn't want to stop and spend the night in the heat we were experiencing.  We got up Monday morning in the mountains and it was 37 degrees.   As we crossed the Texas Panhandle, it was 104.  The wind was blowing constantly for over 400 miles with gusts above 30 mph hitting us broadside.   No problems.  We have added absolutely nothing to enhance handling, just plain old Ford stuff from the factory with the alignment set slightly higher than midrange. 

I feel really blessed as I write this.  It seems so many report so many problems and some are severe, like the ultraleather peeling problem.   Man, I feel lucky.   I must say though, I do appreciate the fact this is a house going down the road and it is a truck not a Lexus.

6  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Do you leave your sink cover over the sink while driving? on: May 19, 2017, 11:10:47 am
We leave ours on, Tom, and then we put down a piece of no slip material on top of the covers.  That allows us to store small plastic baskets full of lightweight things while going down the road.  We are mindful of what is in the basket in case of emergency braking that might through stuff around a bit.  When we get where we are going and deploy the slide, we then move the stored stuff to another area (often behind the driver's seat or on the carpeted area exposed in front of the refrig with the slide out) and then have use of the sink and stove area.  When camped, we just stow the covers in the allocated slot behind the stove.   The covers are nice but they are pretty heavy. 

7  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Born Free Shutdown on: May 18, 2017, 09:02:55 am
I picked up on this last week and tried - just out of curiosity - to research the closing.  I could not find any source of information about it online, including looking at the local news media sites in Humboldt and the area.   Go their website and read the "About" or "History" tab ( I forgot what they call it on the site).

My interest is in just being sad at how really great small companies are struggling these days.   I owned two Roadtreks over the years and, like Born Free, they were started by one guy and built into a quality product which gained great reputations throughout North America.   Age seems to then take over in most of these situations.  The next generation of the family takes over, gets older, cashes out to so called "investors" and they often are under capitalized or simply don't grasp the nuances of the industry in which they find themselves.  The results are often, sadly, not pretty.   As I recall Roadtrek went through three owners in less than five years.  Now, it is owned by a large company from Europe.

I spent almost fifty years in finance and had the great privilege of working with a lot of entrepreneurs all over this country who built wonderful companies where service and quality were the touchstones, not increasing next quarter's profits by a fraction of a cent per share.   Time marches on and  the realities of today's economy are just not kind to these kinds of endeavors.   It is a very, very sad passage and the main reason why I hung up my spurs and went to the house as they say in the Southwest. 

I hope Born Free finds "the capital" some reports indicate they are seeking.  We shall see, but quality custom builders seem to often fall into despair when generations change.  The story of Chinook immediately comes to mind.

If it is true that Born Free is now at least temporarily closed, doesn't that only leave Phoenix Cruiser and Coach House?   No others immediately pop into my mind.

8  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Low water pressure when hooked up on: May 12, 2017, 09:34:34 pm
donc13, that is a good idea on a regulator change.   At one time, I put full 80 psi water into the PC in attempt to change water flow and it did help.  You gotta be careful in hooking up because some  water supplies tend to surge and then decrease.  Besides protection, a regulator working properly should assure a rather constant psi in your plumbing.  

After I modified the disc in the faucet strainer, all now seems to be acceptable.  It just increased the water flow quite a bit.  

I may take your thought and buy a regulator like you linked.   Would you believe my regulator is solid, real brass and made in the USA?  That tells you how many years (and rigs) I have used it.  It tests out to work perfectly, but an adjustable regulator would be nice.  

9  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Low water pressure when hooked up on: May 11, 2017, 05:28:16 pm

2 Frazzled got me on track!!  I checked the tubing and connections from the fill connection up to the outside shower head.  No problems found.  The shower puts our a more reasonable amount of pressure than either sink.  The shower in the bath puts out fairly decent pressure.  The plumbing for the outside shower, the shore input and the lines to the bathroom sink can easily be traced in the cabinet under the sink by removing a panel.  

This morning, our home water pressure was 90 psi. It was mid morning and the pressure was higher than our normal 80 pounds.  I rechecked the inlet backflow check valve, my hose regulator (reduced the 90 psi to 45 psi) and rechecked the water flow at the sinks. it still is a lower flow than it should be in my opinion.  

Then, I recalled when we moved into this house years ago, the shower head put out a lower flow than we wanted.  I remember I took the thing apart and redrilled the hole in the end of it slightly larger and got more water flow.  So, thinking about that, I removed the end of the kitchen faucet (the part that has the flow aerator and screen).  Inside there is a small plastic disc that has a hole in the center 1/8 inch in diameter.  That reduces water flow and stops surging.   Well, both of mine in the sinks now have a disc enlarged to 3/16 diameter because that is the size bit I used to drill it out larger.  

The result was a significant increase in water flow at the sinks.  Now, as to the shower, I never use the outside shower.  Never have used it.  The shower head in the bathroom was replaced when we first got this rig with a sink sprayer like this

That is an old Class B trick.  They are instant on and off and don't drip like most shower heads.  Class Bs can have pretty small tanks and these things can save a lot of water when boondocking because they don't drip.  I modified it slightly by taking it apart and drilled the water passage way a little larger.  

Now, I think we can do just fine hooked up to water, although the water flow  when on the pump is still a little greater than when using shore water.  

Problem solved!  Now, on to a few other things prior to going on trip for a couple of weeks.

Thanks for everyone's input.

10  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Four-year-old tire failure after 14,000 miles on: May 05, 2017, 07:23:02 pm
I also think Don is on target in his comment above.  By the way, besides monitoring the pressure I carry a thermometer like this:

and I check the temperature of each tire when we pull over to rest stops, buy gas, etc.  Particularly in hot weather this is important in my view.  What I am looking for is not the temperature itself so much as a difference in temperature among the six tires.   Air pressure can be constant and appear to be just fine but if a tire is failing it will get hotter than normal.   It only takes a few seconds per tire and I also check the pressure every few hundred miles because I don't have one of the wireless pressure monitoring system although I probably should have one. 

I am also very sensitive when traveling in hot areas of the country in the summer season to the fact that hot roads can heat tires and cause pressure to raise significantly.  70 psi in the rear four becomes 75-78 pretty darn easily when the July temperature is 100+.

11  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Low water pressure when hooked up on: May 01, 2017, 09:08:23 am
No, its not the regulator.  As I mentioned in a reply to Tom above, I have already tried what he suggested and that is a full force feed.  My house pressure is 80 psi and that is twice the pressure that most rv hose regulators allow (40psi).  

I think I will pull out the bed and support structure again and put back pressure on it as has been suggested by a couple of posters.  Ron, I think I will use air at first shot to avoid a mess with water.  I will remove the check valve, of course, and then put a 100 psi air pressure on the piping and see if anything comes out.  

I don't think it is calcium or anything like that or it should be visible also on the faucet screens at the sinks and they are spotless.   Besides, I flush our system after every trip and don't leave water in the system.   I learned a lot about calcium in the home we previously lived in for twenty years.  It was an acreage on the edge of town with a water well and the water was full of lime and calcium.  That stuff can shut plumbing down rather quickly if not filtered or treated.   Believe me, I know!  

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I will back flush with air and or water on the supply plumbing and see what happens and report. Again, on the pump all is just fine.

It actually looks like we can put the boats away and enjoy a week of normal sun shiny days so this is a good week to figure this out. 

12  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Low water pressure when hooked up on: April 30, 2017, 06:44:09 pm
Jack, there is a check valve for back flow built into the inlet which mounts on the outside of the PC and provides the female hose connection.  I replaced it and tested it before I installed it.  The replacement was necessitated by that valve leaking and allowing water to drip out when the hose was disconnected.   No problem there.  

Tom, yep this baby was only owned for eleven months prior to our purchasing it coming up on four years ago.  Since we boondock 95% of the time this problem is not a constant irritant but I would like to fix it.  Your approach was the same as mine:  blow that baby out with a little more pressure.   We have 80 psi of water pressure here at our home (like I mentioned I have a water pressure gauge with a female hose connection input).  I hooked it up, opened the sink in the bathroom fully and  then turned on the water so as not to "jerk" the piping when pressurized.  I got a little more pressure but not much more.  To me, that indicates a kink or some kind of obstruction.

Jack, I don't think I can fish along that line because it probably  makes a 90 degree turn behind the corner of the shower wall and my fish might puncture something or nick some of the wires that trace in that direction.  

I may call the factory as suggested.   Yes, the great thing about a PC is the responsiveness of the folks long after the sale.  This rig going on five years old (hard for me to believe but time marches on) but I suspect nothing has really changed in the routing in that time period.   I may also watch the videos on the PC site where they show a build on the model.  Maybe I can get a better indication of the routing.  As a last resort, I could reroute the supply line under the unit and insulate it with pipe insulation but that is not a very good alternative fix.  Some future owner may be braver than yours truly and camp out a lot in freezing weather.  Low pressure is better than frozen pipe.

On the positive side this is a great excuse to buy some PEX tools Cheer

13  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Low water pressure when hooked up on: April 30, 2017, 01:41:03 pm
Water switch?   Do you mean a valve that allows you to switch from outside source usage to filling the tank?  If so, I don't think my unit has such a valve control.  I am familiar with them because I had them on other coaches over the years.   If I have one, I don't have a clue where it is located and it is not readily visible.  

Does anyone else have a 2013 (or perhaps a year or two earlier) model 2350 and do you have such a valve?

EDITED:  just found a youtube where Earl demonstrates the referenced valve and refers to it as "new for 2014".  My PC is a 2013, so no such valve.

14  Main Forum / General Discussion / Low water pressure when hooked up on: April 30, 2017, 11:23:31 am
We seldom camp where hookups are available but when we do we still use the pump and water supply from our fresh tank, refilling it as needed with the campground water.  Why?  Because we don't have very good pressure if we are hooked up directly to the campground water supply.

Now, I have checked out just about everything.  I have a water pressure gauge I carry that has a female hose connection attached.  I can check water pressure at the source, at the end of the hose after the water supply has gone through my regulator and hose, etc.  Water pressure is 40 psi at the end of my hose, exactly as it should be.  The pressure of the water coming out in the sinks in our 2013 PC 2350 is about 1/3rd of the pressure with our pump and is essentially not usable for showering, etc.  

I have checked the filter screen in the input connection on the PC.  As a matter of fact, the original back flow check valve failed and I replaced that with a new input connection and a new check valve.  They work perfectly.   I have removed the bed and accessed the plumbing underneath.  I have checked for kinks in the plumbing lines, crimps, everything on every pipe that is accessible.  No problems.  

The only conclusion I can come up with is that the supply line is crimped or impeded somewhere behind the wall between the hose input connection and the accessible/viewable plumbing.   Please remember the pressure is low at all outlets:  both sinks, toilet, shower, and outside shower....every outlet.   SO....the problem must be in the main supply line somewhere and I have just about given up.  I don't intend to tear out the shower walls to try to find it!

Does anyone have any thought or has anyone experienced a similar problem?    I assume the plumbing routing will differ from model to model.  

The whole system works perfectly fine with the water pump.

15  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 2017 version slide out - a River Runs Thru It? on: April 22, 2017, 11:48:20 am
jatrax, I am sorry you have gone through all this misery.  When you spend this much for something and are as dedicated to defining what you wanted as you have been, it must be disappointing.....very disappointing.  

I am sorry to say this, but I suspect virtually all rv manufacturers are doing well right now business wise and so things get a bit more rushed than when business is a little slower.   Same thing for the sub assembly and parts such as refrigerators, shades,  heaters, air, etc.  

I love to go to rv shows and kick tires.  I notice a distinct decline in quality of assembly and parts over the last couple of years in virtually all manufacturers.  Those old rigs were built like tanks but now......different story.   Less is more is also a factor often for quality.   I feel lucky that I can do all my own maintenance and upkeep on the rig itself, but I won't touch the chassis stuff.   That is the local garage down the street.  I just don't have the knowledge base and know it.  

We have had few problems with our 2013 and are very pleased with its quality.   We had a 2007 Roadtrek 210P Class  B prior to this PC and the RT was a study in how to build something right.  If you could have put wings on it you would have been comfortable at 250 knots and 10,000 feet.   I looked at the new Roadtreks recently.  No comparison in quality of construction and finite finish compared to our old 2007.   Phoenix has a real advantage in that they are owned by the folks that run the joint and are extremely responsive.  Roadtrek, like many, has been flipped three times in the last few years...from the family that started it in the 70s and ran it through about 2010.   Now, it is owned by a European RV manufacturer.   After being flipped by a couple of "private equity" groups.  

Hang in there.  I bet you have identified virtually all the bugs.

And catsaplenty shouldn't have to have a leak in the slide.  I tilt our rig a bit so that the shower drains better.  That is the opposite of the tilt needed to keep water out of the slide apparently.  So far, our slide has been water good whether extended or retracted.  I do service it every spring to just make sure it hopefully stays that way.

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