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1  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 20, 2016, 07:46:48 pm
Nice!

What was the cost?

Ron, I bought the new thermostat on EBAY for $23.09 plus $5.89 shipping/handling.  I wonder if you have 2 thermostats on yours, one for propane and one for electric?  Or maybe one controls both?

Thanks,

JJ
2  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 19, 2016, 07:42:36 pm
I have the adjustable hot water heater thermostat installed.  Easy installation (picture and instructions in photos).  I checked the hot water heater, still no clicking, and at the lowest setting the temperature was 110 degrees when the burner turned off.   

ThumbsUp 

I can dial the temperature up from this point.   Ready for our next trip!   Smile

JJ

3  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 14, 2016, 09:36:20 pm
With the newly gained knowledge from this forum, I spent some time this evening trying to figure out the mysteries of my hot water heater.  I checked for loose/corroded connections and everything seemed good.  I turned on the hot water heater and the burner ignited right away as always.  The piezo ignitor remained clicking as it has in the past.  Upon further looking, I found that the end of the piezo ignitor was too far out of the main flow of the flame.  I gave a gentle push on the bracket holding the ignitor, and the sparking stopped.  The picture shows the position of the ignitor after I made the very minor adjustment.  I suspect the electronic module is still sending a signal for a spark, but it cannot occur when it is in the flow of the flame.  To check my theory, I shut off the gas valve at the propane tank while the burner was on.  As the pressure died down, the flame went out and the ignitor immediately started sparking.  As soon as I turned the propane valve back on, the flame re-ignited.  One problem solved!

I then left the hot water heater on so I could get a temperature measurement as Joe suggested.  I used an infrared thermometer I purchased years ago that I have found to provide reliable temperature measurements.  It took a while but when the burner turned off due to the thermostat, I checked the temperature.  I did this by filling a cup of water from the kitchen faucet and taking a measurement.  It measured 152 degrees.  Too hot for us!  I have the adjustable thermostat on order, it should arrive next week.

I hope this information is helpful to others.  Thanks again for everyone's great advice!

JJ
4  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 10, 2016, 06:51:23 am

Yes, I fully agree having the temperature hotter will make the 6 gallons last longer.  Just trying to make sure the temperature is safe for our daughter.  At home, all of our faucets have a single lever which makes it easy to get a good mix of hot and cold right from the start.  Its a bit more tricky with the shower faucet in our RV.   I also try at home to have the water heater as low as possible to conserve energy cost, but high enough to not run out of hot water.  Since we have a natural gas hot water heater, this is easily adjusted.  Adding the adjustable thermostat to the RV would allow me to dial the temperature to what works for us.  But my main objective is making sure the water is not too hot.  This discussion made me curious of what is recommended for hot water temperature.  I copied below what I learned . . . thought you might be interested. 

As always, thank you for your help!

JJ
 

TIME/TEMPERATURE RELATIONSHIPS IN SCALDS*
Temperature   Time to Produce Serious Burns
120F   More than 5 minutes
125F   1- 1/2 to 2 Minutes
130F   About 30 Seconds
135F   About 10 Seconds
140F   Less than 5 Seconds
145F   Less than 3 Seconds
150F   About 1-1/2 Seconds
155F   About 1 Second
160F+   Instantaneously
*Table Courtesy of Shiners Burn Institute


Temperature Guidelines
The following are guidelines for common activities using hot water.
Hand Washing: 110F - 115F
Showers: 110F - 115F
Dishwasher rinse: 130F 140F
Some models have build-in booster heaters that allow the water heater to be set at 110F - 115F.
New liquid soaps for automatic dishwashers are designed to work well at lower temperatures.
Experiment with the water temperature at the dishwasher and choose the most economical setting.
Laundry: 110F - 120F
With todays detergents, most clothes can be effectively cleaned in either warm or cold water. Washing clothes in warm or cold-water will not only save energy, but will also prevent premature wear and fading of fabrics.
5  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 09, 2016, 08:14:36 pm
Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice!   I checked our water heater and it is an Atwood G6A-8E.  After doing some checking I have confirmed that this is a propane only 6 Gallon Electronic ignite water heater.  I really like your idea Joe of checking the temperature of the water with a cooking thermometer.  I will do that the next time we have the unit on.  We did check the temperature of the hot water in our house, and sure enough it is around 125 degrees.  I think you are correct, we are used to a lower temperature.  So maybe our RV's water heater is just fine.  We will know for sure once we check it with the thermometer.  I was able to find the adjustable thermostat on the web.  Found one for $28 that is compatable with our water heater.  I think I am going to give that a try.

I really appreciate all the great help from this forum!

JJ

6  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 08, 2016, 10:08:52 pm
Ron
Your picture and description helps a lot.  Based on that we must have a propane-only model. We just have one simple lighted rocker switch to turn on or off.  Definitely something I will add to the list of wants for our next PC. 

Based on your earlier answer, I do wonder why my piezo igniter does not stop clicking once the burner has ignited.  I just thought it might be a safety feature if the burner happened to blow out for a brief second, it would quickly re-ignite before any gases built up.  With this, however, I would expect the piezo ignitor life would be limited with it clicking all the time.  We do only run our hot water heater when we really need it, typically just a couple times a day.  The water heats up real fast and stays hot for quite a while.  Our limited use should help on the life of the ignitor. 

Thanks again,

JJ
7  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 08, 2016, 09:32:08 pm
Thanks Ron.  Do I understand you correctly?  You can operate your hot water heater on propane or electric???  Either we have different hot water heaters or I don't know how to operate ours on electric.  I am curious how you select between propane or 110V electric?  We have a simple toggle switch just below the countertop that we flip on when we want hot water.  The toggle switch lights up red for maybe a second or two and the light turns off once the burner ignites.  Even though our RVs are the same model and model year, maybe the factory offered two different hot water heater options.  It would be great to have the option to run off electric. 

Thanks again,

JJ
8  Main Forum / General Discussion / A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 08, 2016, 08:04:02 pm
While I have had my 2007 2350 for a few years now, I still have a couple of questions related to my hot water heater that I know members of this forum would know the answers. 

The first, is there any way to adjust the temperature on the hot water heater?  Our hot water is very hot by the time the burner turns off. 

The second, when my hot water heater runs I hear the repeated clicking of the piezo ignitor.  I would have thought the ignitor would have stopped once the burner was lit.  Or is the consistent clicking of the ignitor a safety feature to help ensure the burner stays lit?

Thanks,

JJ
9  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Thinking about our next RV . . . on: April 09, 2015, 08:40:18 pm
Thanks for all the replies.  A generator will be a must have on our next RV, wish we had one on our current RV.  Not having one definitely limits our options on where we stay. 
We have never had a slide.  It would sure be nice to have the extra space.  Are there any disadvantages to having slide?  Do they make a tight seal while traveling (i.e. any wind noise)? 
10  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Thinking about our next RV . . . on: April 08, 2015, 05:50:55 pm
Rattles bug me too and it bugs my wife when I am on the hunt for that allusive rattle (the noise of the rattles don't seem to bug her, just me looking for them).  It seems like different conditions (temperature, humidity, road conditions, etc) bring out different rattles.  I know on this last trip, there were times when the rig was fully rattle free.  Then the next day, it is back again.  My Phoenix seems to have less rattles then others I have driven.  My 2350 is on a E-350 chassis and have wondered if I would have more/less/same rattles with the E-450, I am guessing more with the E-450 since it is a more solid chassis. Lately if I get a rattle, I just turn the radio up to try to drown it out. 
Thanks for the input!
11  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Winegard RFL-332 on: April 08, 2015, 02:15:36 pm
I put one in our 2350.  It helps in pointing the antenna in the best direction to get maximum signal strength for a given channel before performing a scan on your tv.   I can't say I noticed any difference in signal strength compared to our original amplifier, not sure how much gain the original amplifier had.  Below is a website with a video and some reviews that may help:

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/Winegard-SensarPro-TV-Signal-Meter-Black/59189/&?&affiliateid=5193&gclid=CPXDp-Gj58QCFYsCaQodv6AAGw

I don't recall needing the spacer for ours but I do know with all the cables and wires it was a tight fit. 

JJ

12  Main Forum / General Discussion / Thinking about our next RV . . . on: April 08, 2015, 12:42:50 pm
My wife and I have always said we would treat ourselves with a new RV when I retire in a couple of years.  We were on our first road trip for the year going to the Smokies and we started talking about what we would want in our new RV.  Below are some of our thoughts on what we really like about our 2350 and what we would really like to have in our next RV:
-  Lots of power.   We have the Triton V10 and it was great having that power in the mountains.  We took on some very intense mountains with power to spare.  And that was while pulling a Honda CRV.

-  Styling.  We get lots of compliments on our 2350.

-  Goes just about anywhere.  With the narrower dimensions and lower height, we can take our Phoenix just about anywhere.  Some of the boxy class Cs are just too wide and too tall for our preference.  We have not come across a road yet that we have not been able to take our 2350, and we were on some interesting ones this last trip. Plus the smaller dimensions pushes less air which has to save a bit on gas mileage.

-  Lights everywhere.   Who would of thought this would be on our list but Phoenix definitely does not skimp on indoor lighting.  There are lights everywhere you need them.  

-  Tow/Haul mode.   It is very nice to have the engine help in the braking while slowing down or coming down the mountains.  Really like the fact that it downshifts automatically.

-  Integrated Sani-Con system.   A lot less hassle and makes the operation much more sanitary.  There is the option to use the full size hose if staying a long time, but we never seem to bother.  I don't think I have seen another RV with the Sani-Con system integrated in with the RV.  

-  Handles great.   This was not true when we first bought our used 2007 2350.  But after following Ron's advice, it handles very good now (thanks again Ron).  Added front/rear sway bars, rear trac bar, and steering damper.  I understand the newer chassis may not need these upgrades.  I have never had the opportunity to make that comparison.

-  Cold weather camping.  On this trip we had some nights that went down to the lower 20s.  No problem.  We just kept the inside nice and warm, left the hot water heater on, and knew we had the tank warmers if we needed them.  

-  Great for movies.  With the surround sound system and both the front and back TVs, we really enjoy watching movies in our 2350.  

-  HWH Jacks.  They come in very handy when we need them.  We will likely splurge and add this to the list when we buy our next one.

-  Reliability.   The reliability has been very good on our 2350.  I almost hesitate saying this as I don't want to jinx anything.

-  TV reception.  We get very good reception.  Added the amplifier a couple of years ago that has a digital readout stating signal strength (helps in pointing the antenna the best direction).  When we were camped near Louisville Kentucky, we received 42 stations.  Plus with the cable jack on the side of the RV, we just plugged the campsite cable into the RV when we were at Pigeon Forge.  

-  Heating/Air Conditioner.   The ducted heat works great.  Not sure we fully tested the roof air on a very hot day . . . I think it would keep up.   We also like the fantastic fan.  

-  Convection oven.  Very nice to have.  

-  Awning.  It is nice to have an awning especially when the weather calls for it.  Ours did not have one when we bought it so we added a Carefree of Colorado.  Not sure we would go that route again as it does not take much wind for it to want to start folding up.  I should have investigated to see what Phoenix puts on the new ones.  The angled sides limits some of the options.

-  Generator.  We do not have one on ours but we think it could really come in handy.  Some national parks don't have electric hook-ups.  We never had one so I am not sure what additional maintenance headache I might be taking on.  

 These are just some of the things that will likely have us buying a Phoenix for our next RV.  We have likely missed some items that we just take for granted or did not think of.  I know the list can be very subjective and our list may be weighted heavy on drive-ability.  We would be curious on what you would have on your "must have" list as we would welcome the ideas.  
13  Main Forum / Tips and Tricks / Re: To tow or not to tow. That is the question. on: July 20, 2013, 05:59:36 pm
Very good question and I have been very interested in the responses to your post   Earlier this year we added a tow bar to our 2013 Honda CR-V that we pull with our PC 2350.  I can share why we wanted to tow the CR-V and some of the things we learned: 

Why: 
Prior to our 2350, we had a class B RV that we liked very much.  At only 20 ft long, we could take it anywhere we wanted.  We just did not like the inconvenience of breaking up camp to go anywhere.  So we knew once we had a larger RV that had the power to tow a vehicle, we wanted to have the option to tow a smaller vehicle.   


What did we learn:
We really like to use our PC as a base camp staying several days at a time and then exploring a 60-100 mile radius with our CR-V.  We go on more spur of the moment trips while camping, whether it is simple trips shopping, out to eat, or sightseeing.  Plus when we do, we get the 25-30 mpg of the CR-V. 

It was costly to get set up to tow a vehicle.  We started from scratch so we needed:
-  Base plate for the CR-V (Blue Ox)
-  Tow bar (Blue Ox Aventa LX)
-  Brake Buddy to brake the CR-V
-  A wiring kit for the rear brake and turn signals
-  A switch to be able to turn off the CR-V displays and navigation so the CR-V's battery does not run down
-  A tire pressure monitoring system (Tire Minder) so I would know while driving the RV if any of the tires on the CR-V were low or blown.
-  Front bra for the CR-V.  Not sure I would buy this again.  It is a hassle to put on and off.  I only put it on for long trips.  I don't like leaving it on as it gets wet and dirty, I did not think this was good for the paint.

In our case, the CR-V was big enough that it negatively impacted the handling of the RV.  The RV would now wander going down the highway and be impacted by passing trucks.  It became a chore to drive the rv especially on windy days and on busy interstates with lots of tractor trailer trucks.  This started me down the path of doing several suspension improvements:
-  Safe-T-Plus steering damper
-  Rear sway bar (Roadmaster)
-  Rear Track-bar
-  Front Sway Bar (Hellwig)
-  Quiet hitch (eliminates any side to side play in the tow bar/reciever connection
All this has helped quite a bit.  On my last trip I could not even feel a thing when the large trucks passed me by.  You may not need any of this, it really depends on your rv and what you are comfortable with.  If I were to do it over again, I would have started with a good front end alignment as some debate that that can make a world of improvement by itself.  Then I would go from there. 

The Ford V10 has plenty of power for the CR-V.  I love having that power as our class B only had a 5L V-8.  There is a button on the gear selector that you can push when towing that helps expecially on hilly roads. 

Surprisingly our MPG when pulling the CR-V was not impacted that much.  It depends if you are doing more start/stop vs. highway travel.  I don't have alot of data on this yet, but I would say the impact is less then 1 mpg.  We have been averaging 10 mpg. 


For us, we are glad we now have the option to tow our CR-V.  It was alot more expensive to get set up then what we first atticipated.  We hope and plan to have many years of RVing in front of us.  Over time as we purchase new vehicles to tow or upgrade our RV, we will not have the expense of the tow bar, brake buddy, or TPMS as we will just transfer to the new set-up.  Hope this helps, keep us posted on what you decide is best for you.
14  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: WATER PUMP FIX UP on: July 18, 2013, 06:57:34 am
jj
  tks for the reply... looking at your pics, and looking at my set up I see no difference...  hmmm this looks like a major project,,, to do this I am going to have take the bed frame off no doubt to be able to work on this... did you finish yet??  also do you have pics of the flex line you added? I'm going to wait and see how the other projects go  also when I look at you pics  I see the pipes, wonder if just cushioning them could help... Will keep researching, looking, and thinking about it..hahah
sparky

Sparky,  I have not added the flex line yet, I am going to wait and see what the replacement pump does first and then add the flex tubing at that time.  On mine, I was able to remove the pump without taking any panels off.  The pump output unscrews just like Ron has described.  It was a little trick unscrewing the back mounting screws of the pump as they were behind the panel closer to the tank.  I tried a few different screwdrivers before I found one to do the job.  Just adding cushioning did help in my case with the hammering but looking back probably not enough to justify the effort as I could not reach all the lines that ran closer to the vanity. It required me to remove that panel temporarily.  To gain access, I had to remove the carpet over that side panel (held in with staples) and then pry the side panel from the top and corner panels. Not a trivial task . . . I can fully understand why you might want to finish your other projects first!
15  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: WATER PUMP FIX UP on: July 17, 2013, 10:35:59 pm
In a recent thread I spent the afternoon in my storage compartment,  JJ Ron and others brought up some great points regarding the pump, accumulators, and so forth.... I took some pics through the opening of our 2350.at the water tank opening..   The vent hose is looped. still good and clear though,, I'm having no problem with water so leave alone.
        Pump noise is my main concern.... I posted a message from Shur flo that indicates you need a long feed to and from the pump to help with noise.... If you look at the last picture you can see the input hose is bolted down to the floorboard,, it is also very stiff,, I'm thinking that this may be the noise problem. Ron suggestion putting some padding around it I believe......
       I'm going to fill the tank a little enough to run the pump,,, then run it and see if this could be the main source of the noise.... will post more later.
        I can not see the output hose it is behind the pump.

Sorry but the pics are at        http://waterpumpfixupforaruiser.blogspot.com/

I'm still having problems downloading pics to the forum  All thoughts, comments appreciated.
David Sparks
2008 PC 2350
Houston

Sparky - thanks for sharing the pictures.  The vent hose looks new compared to what I had to replace.
I think you will get the biggest gain with the flex tubing on the pump output.  That is where the hammering noise was coming from on my RV. The picture I posted shows what the plumbing looks like directly after the pump output.  Please keep us posted on your progress.
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