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16  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom on: January 20, 2015, 10:07:49 am
OK, with help from Kermit and Bob, I was able to fix the leak.  The drain from the kitchen and bathroom sink follow the contour of the shower pan lip that you step over to get in the shower.  The first 45 degree after leaving the sink (this would be the 45 degree angle just to your left as you step into the shower) had a severe crack on the inside.  It cracked because it was under stress because the 'real' angle of the joint was closer to 55 degrees due to the installer not using the right lengths of straight pipe.  Over time, it developed a stress fracture.

I replaced the elbow with a length of 45 degree angle radiator hose and double clamped it on both ends.  Hopefully this will be a permanent solution.  It works for marine installations.

This is a big job.  The pan had to be lifted to get to the leaking joint.  This required complete disassembly of the shower. The glass had to be removed, the walls between the glass and exterior had to be removed, the trim around the pan had to be removed, the pan had to be loosened all around, and the trim around the interior shower walls had to be removed so you could lift the pan up to get to the leak.  Once I found the leak, I had to cut it out and that wasn't easy either.

We discussed cutting a hole in the shower pan to gain access, but that wouldn't have worked because the pan had to be lifted to have enough working room.

I'm about done, I have to get my nail gun and nail back the trim on the interior and then re-caulk the shower.  Whew!   There are some tricks to getting the walls off.  If anyone has this happen to them, get in touch with me.  The factory said this is the first time they had a leak reported here.  They have repaired broken shower pans.  Mark
17  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom on: January 12, 2015, 08:31:16 pm
I talked to Kermit today.  He said this is not a repair for the faint of heart and twice said I needed to bring the rv back to the factory for repair.   That's not going to happen.  I basically have to lift up the shower so I can find the problem and hopefully have enough room to fix it.  I need to disassemble the glass shower walls and remove trim at the base of the shower walls.  Once that is out I need to unscrew the shower pan from the exterior walls.  That should free up the pan except from its drain and sealant.  Then I must try to pry up the shower pan so I can peek underneath to find the leak.  The drain leaves the sink and follows the exterior of the shower pan with 45 degree angles turns and finally drops into the holding tank between the shower pan and the linen closet.  The shower drains elsewhere so it is not the problem.  If I can't get the pan up high enough to see, I may need to remove the drain from the shower pan.  He didn't think removing the vanity was a good idea as it is hard to remove and wouldn't allow much access once I got it out so I'll do it the easy way by taking out the shower! I will start on this project later this week.

After talking to Kermit, I'm pretty sure one of the 45 degree joints under the shower pan has parted just based on the drain pipe layout and where the water is leaking.  I'm really not looking forward to this job, but until it's fixed the kitchen sink and vanity can't be used.   
18  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom on: January 12, 2015, 09:42:22 am
Thanks for the pic, Bob.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  The leak is somewhere under the lip of the shower pan.  I wonder where the shower drain attaches or if it even uses this drain pipe?  I hope I can get to it with just the vanity removed.  I'm hoping that the shower pan lip is removable for access or the whole shower will need to be disassembled and the pan pulled out.  What a job that will be.  The vanity disassembly is going very slow.  The guy who put it in went a little crazy with the screw gun and crushed/split most of the wood as he drove the screws in way too deep.  It make it tough getting them out.  Plus, as you can see in the picture, part of it was installed when access was easy.  I have a call into Kermit and hopefully he will have an easy solution.  This plumbing was not designed to ever need fixing!  Mark
19  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Help! Leak in the bathroom on: January 11, 2015, 09:25:45 pm
OK, after we got home, I pulled the panel off the shower that holds the controls.  It's in the corner.  I found the hot and cold water runs coming from the bathroom sink.  They continue on around the corner and apparently go to the outside shower.  I also found about 20' of camera wire coiled up and the penetration where it goes out the wall.  There was also a bundle of wires running along the wall.   You can see that the shower pan sits on styrofoam.  The area was wet and I blotted up as much as I could, hooked the shower hot/cold water controls back up and turned on the pump.  I waited 10 minutes and the pump never ran after pressurizing the system and I found no leaks.  I ran some water through the sink and water almost immediately started seeping out b/w the vanity and shower.  i have a drain leak. 

I traced the drain system and the drain drops to the floor makes a right angle turn towards the shower and then makes another turn back towards the engine.  No leaks to this point and after the turn back towards the front of the vehicle you can't see/access the drain pipe.  Somewhere under there the drain from the shower links in and then it drops to the holding tank. 

I hope I can remove the vanity and get to the drain without removing the whole shower/shower pan.  I started removing the vanity.  Interestingly it is built around the plumbing.  In other words, it doesn't just slide in.  To remove the vanity, you must remove the panel behind the toilet, remove the permanent shelf in the vanity and I'm not sure yet, but probably remove the vanity top too.  To get the vanity shelf out, you would have to cut the drain plumbing.  Why would you design a bathroom where you put the vanity in, drop in the vanity shelf, screw it in, add the bathroom sink vent, glue it in, glue in the trap, and then add the vanity top?  It's not a clean install and I can't get to the drain pipe once the vanity is removed, I'll have to disassemble the shower and remove the shower pan!

I'll call the factory tomorrow and see if there is a better way.  Either the drain pipe wasn't glued correctly and parted at a joint or the pipe suffered a stress fracture.  It's probably the former with the amount of water leaking.
20  Main Forum / General Discussion / Help! Leak in the bathroom on: January 11, 2015, 11:17:58 am
We are on the road this weekend and I'm hooked up to power only.  Last night we noticed water oozing out from under the vanity in the bathroom.  All we have used the bathroom for this weekend is the sink and the toilet.  I put a towel down and we didn't use the sink last night.  This morning  I investigated more thoroughly.  The water is coming from under the shower pan/vanity area, I think from under the shower pan.  All the drain pipes under the bathroom vanity are dry as are the supply lines.  We used the water pump and kitchen sink to wash dishes this morning and there is now more water pooling in the bathroom leading me to believe i have a leak on the supply side that manifests when the pump is turned on.  The supply lines to the bathroom sink are dry.  In my 2552 the supply lines appear to run along the back wall from the closet to the sink and then on to the shower.  My guess is that there is a leak where the supply line makes a right angle turn to go up to the shower knobs or at the knobs themselves.  Has anyone ever pulled the corner of their shower out?  Any other suggestions for finding the source of the leak?  Thanks, Mark
21  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Why PC instead of similar priced Class A on: October 31, 2014, 04:09:30 pm
For 2 adults and 2 kids, I too would be looking very closely at the Allegro.  I am size compromised.  I need a unit that will fit under my 10' garage door and the PC fits that bill very nicely.  The bunkhouse Allegro has a lot more room and a whole lot more storage at the same cost and not much difference in mpg.  I have a friend who has the bunkhouse model and is considering a trade.  If you like, I will put you in touch with her.  It is the FRED model.
22  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Electrical ? Issue on: October 26, 2014, 10:36:36 pm
Does the engine start ok after your cleaning job?  If not, you very likely have a loose connection on one of the battery posts.
23  Main Forum / Adventure Anywhere / Re: Oak Mountain State Park AL on: October 19, 2014, 05:19:37 pm
We stayed here too.  A very nice place.
24  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Do I Need A New Sanicon Macerator? on: October 19, 2014, 12:21:00 am
That looks surprisingly like the fresh water pump impeller on our old inboard boat engine.  We replaced the impeller biannually to prevent pump failure while offshore.  What you found sounds like blades from a well used impeller.  Should you decide to replace it, getting the impeller back in the pump can be an exercise in inventing new curse words.  However, there is an easy solution.  Tightly wrap the new impeller with heavy cord so the blades are bound as snuggly as possible against the brass center, but don't tie it off.  The impeller should now slide easily into the pump housing.  Once seated, hold the impeller in the housing with one hand and pull the cord off with the other.  It may take a couple of attempts to get it right.  Liberal use of curse words are optional but recommended.  It doesn't matter if you fold the blades in the wrong direction. They will quickly reorientate themselves to the right way.
25  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: vibration in driveline on: August 09, 2014, 10:38:59 pm
The service manager at my local Ford dealer was extremely helpful.  He went out of his way to ride with me and offered to send the driveshaft out to a 3rd party for re-balancing.  He rebalanced my tires, put the rv up on the rack and tried different spacers to make it better and charged me nothing for the services.  He told me he has rv's come in all the time with issues that don't fall under Ford's warranty or the coach warranty and he is caught in the middle.  I decided to move forward on my own, rather than try to fight with Ford over a frame modification warranty claim.  PC was helpful in troubleshooting, but it was made clear that even though my PC was only 7 months old, the warranty stopped with the original owner.  Buyer beware.
26  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: vibration in driveline on: August 02, 2014, 03:04:00 pm
Sounds like a good plan.  You might want to nail down the cost before you go.
27  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: New member on: August 02, 2014, 03:01:32 pm
I generally drive 62-63 mph and we always seem to get 9.2 mpg.  According to the scan gauge, mpg go up to 10 or 12 if you drive b/w 50-55.  I tried that, but we never got anywhere.  At 62 mph, I rarely pass anyone on the interstate.  After owning the 2552 for a year, our chief complaint is the sleeping arrangements.  We would prefer a dedicated queen size bed and really don't like sleeping on the fold out couch.   Right now, I'm building a bridge b/w the single beds so they can be rotated 90 degrees into a nice large bed.  Of course, this is a tradeoff too.  Someone must climb over someone to get to the bathroom.
28  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: vibration in driveline on: July 31, 2014, 11:08:33 am
Balancing them separately was a disaster for my 2552.  It was much worse using that method, almost undrivable. 

I would call around and see if you can find someone who can a) balance the entire driveline and b) do it cheaper.  I paid about 1/2 the amount quoted you.

I would call around and get pricing on replacing shaft 2 and 3 with a single shaft.

I would call William at Panhandle Driveline (850-983-6150) and get his 2 cents.  He's the guy that worked on my unit.  Holly and John on the forum here (2 Frazzled) took their vibration issue to him and he determined they didn't have a driveline vibration, rather a noise issue.

You are on the hook because once the warranty expires or the unit is sold, whichever comes first, any repairs are the responsibility of the owner.  The Ford warranty transfers, but this really isn't a Ford defect.  I did a lot of research and didn't find many people complaining about this so only a few rv's are coming off the line with a problem big enough to warrant a fix.  Here is an interesting article on the subject:

Good luck and keep us updated.  Mark

29  Main Forum / General Discussion / Who was that in MS? on: July 30, 2014, 07:20:27 pm
I took my dog to New Orleans today for a vet visit and on the way back home I passed a PC pulling out east on I10 at the Pascagoula River rest area.  It looked like a white 2350 but I can't be sure.  This is the first PC I've ever seen that wasn't mine.  I slowed down, but you got off at the next exit.  Who was that?  Mark
30  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: vibration in driveline on: July 29, 2014, 11:32:26 am
The guy that balanced my driveline was not complimentary of the design citing 3 pieces when it should be 2 and the crazy offset and up/down angles.  I found numerous complaints in several RV forums about driveline vibration issues but the percentage of units with problems is small enough that manufacturers aren't taking notice.  Ford recognizes the problem and has issued a bulletin about maintaining certain angles in the extension process. 

This past weekend, we did a lot of driving off the interstate at slower speeds and I started to notice the vibration again.  It's much, much better than before the re-balancing, but some of it is still there.  If I was going to do it again, I'd pull the 2nd and 3rd shafts and go with a beefier 2 shaft (balanced) driveline assuming the price wasn't outrageous. 

My Ford dealer balanced my tires for free in their first attempt to fix my problem.  This was after I paid a tire store to balance them ($15/tire). $300 seems high.  Ford did a much better job than the tire store.  Once re-balanced, they declared the problem solved!  Not.  The tire store told me that balancing tires on a dual wheel axle requires balancing all 4 tires and then sometimes rotating the outer wheel to smooth out vibration and out of round issues.  I don't know if that is true.

The units as delivered from Ford work fine, but when you add that 3rd shaft any off balance situation that wouldn't be noticed in a non-extended van becomes magnified to the point of being an annoyance not to mention that the vibration is not at all good for the rear transmission and axle bearings and the u joints. 

If you go back to the Ford dealer, see if the service manager will take a ride with you and see if you can get him personally involved.  Meanwhile, I'd call a shop that specializes in driveshafts and ask what they will charge you to replace the 2nd/3rd shaft with a single 5" shaft and balance both pieces together.  I never got a price, but now wish I had. Mark
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