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31  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Noisy converter? on: November 14, 2013, 04:52:22 pm
There are a few things that use inverted power 24/7 unless you go out of your way to disable or unplug them.  They are your GFI outlet in the bathroom, your TV and possibly your head unit with CD/DVD player.  They just might be the reason why the inverter is blowing it's cooling fan for what appears to be randomly.  That is why many of us turn on the inverter only when 110V is needed, otherwise utilizing 12v system features.

Yes, the inverter fan might run more often when the inverter is working to create 110v from the 12v batteries for the items you describe.  However, the issue here is that the inverter fan goes often even when plugged into shore power and the inverter is turned off not and not creating 110v.  In that mode, there is a relay in the inverter that is powered by the 110v to allow 110v shore power to pass through the relay contacts to the circuits.  The inverter is off and doing no work to create 110v, but the relay gets warm and the fan comes on to keep it cool.  Even if all the circuits fed by the inverter were disabled and no 110v current was passing through the relay contacts, the fan would continue to cycle to keep the relay cool due to the heat created by the relay coil itself.  When 110v is not present, the relay switches off to a condition to allow the 110v created by the inverter to flow to the circuits if the inverter is turned on.
32  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Winter travel and overnighting iin low 20 degree weather on: November 14, 2013, 12:46:37 am
I am not too comfortable with cat heaters in a confined space - hope they are in fact ceramic heaters.  Other than that pretty much what Bob said.

Good point, have to leave a window open with the cat heaters. 
33  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Winter travel and overnighting iin low 20 degree weather on: November 13, 2013, 09:03:54 pm
Not wanting to run the generator at night and limited to 20 amp shore power, I would do the following:

Use the 110v 20 amps to run the catalytic heaters, check the amp draw, you may be able to only run one at a time.

Run the water heater on propane.

Put antifreeze in the holding tanks, the tank heaters may draw too much current.  Or, disconnect the batteries via the store switch and run the tank heaters.  Then the converter will not try to recharge them and not draw any current, then recharge in the am with the catalytic heaters off or run the generator to recharge.

The rest of the plumbing is within the insulated walls and will be fine if you keep the catalytic heaters going.

Instead of the catalytic heaters, you could run the propane furnace as it doesn't use as much electricity as the catalytic.



34  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: At long last - Our PC arrives! on: November 12, 2013, 07:41:39 pm
Bob,
   This is what I have and have been using for several years now.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/30-amp-rv-female-to-50-amp-125250v-rv-male-pigtail-adapter-with-pull-handles/69614

The 50 amp male plugs into the house or post and the PC provided 30 amp cable plugs into the female end. I have used it when I could not get 30 amp on the post and at home. My house was wired when I had a 50 amp class A motorhome. I am to cheap to pay to downside the set up.


Tom,

You are right, I forgot about those adapters, I even have one.  The RV has a 30 amp main breaker that protects the 30 amp end of the adapter.  However, if there is a short before the main RV breaker, then the current can go to 50 amps before the pedestal breaker opens, potentially damaging the 30 amp connection of the adapter.

I edited my previous post to remove the statement that 50 amp to 30 amp cables are not available.

I use my adapter when there is only 50 amp provided or the 30 amp receptacle on the pedestal looks suspect - loose, cracked, or burned.  Interesting to note that they make the adapter so that one of the two hot 50 amp prongs is wired to the one hot 30 amp prong on the 30 amp end, so all the power is passing through one of the 50 amp pedestal breakers.

Bob
35  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Noisy converter? on: November 12, 2013, 05:17:05 pm
Quote
aren't all the lights, vent fans and refrigerator fan powered by the inverter?

These items are 12V and powered directly from the house batteries.

Barry

So the only time we are actually using the inverter is if we are not plugged into shore power and plug something into one of the inverter outlets? If so, then figuring out a way to easily turn the inverter on and off would be a great help IF that is the fan we hear running. Kermit told us it is the CONVERTER fan that we hear and most people will never hear the inverter as it has a little fan and is tucked back in under the bed.

Yes, you are correct, the inverter is just sitting there waiting for you to use the 110v outlets if you are not plugged into shore power.  While waiting, it powers an internal relay to pass 110v power through but when 110v is not present then the relay switches off to allow the inverter to provide 110v power from the 12v batteries if you turn the inverter control on.  The fan runs to cool the relay and circuitry while in standby mode.

Yes, you need to determine if the fan you hear is the inverter or converter.  In the electrical box there is a breaker that sends 110v to the inverter, turn this off at night and if the fan noise is gone then it was the inverter.  There are two breakers for the inverter, hopefully they are labeled "to" or "from" the inverter.  I am not at my RV, but as I recall, there are three breakers at the bottom of the panel, one is from the inverter and feeds the two below it that go to the inverter controlled 110v outlets.  So, the one that goes to the inverter is above those and that is the one to turn off.  If that works, you can just turn that breaker off at night.

I eventually rewired my inverter so that I have a manual switch to bypass the inverter so that the inverter is not powered when not needed, thereby eliminating the fan noise.  A couple years ago I posted a description and photos of the rewire, but the photos are not posting any longer, I will redo them and repost if anyone is interested.

Another way to determine which fan is making the noise is to tape a tissue over the fan grill of the converter and see if it moves when you hear the fan noise.  The converter fan is at the bottom of the electric panel and you can see the fan grill.  The inverter fan is not readily accessible since the inverter is located under the bed.  I have found that the converter fan rarely runs, it has to be working hard to convert 110v to 12v before it's fan operates and then it is a quieter fan noise to me.  So, at night there is not much 12v converter work going on and no fan, whereas the inverter is still in bypass mode and cooling it's fan.

Bob
36  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: At long last - Our PC arrives! on: November 12, 2013, 04:29:10 pm
I am no electrician  but I do know that 50 amps requires two hot legs, a neutral and a ground for a total of four legs. 30 amp only requires three legs, one hot, a neutral and a ground. I have a 50 amp (four leg) plug on my house and a 30 amp (three leg) plug on the PC. So I have a dog bone that has four legs for the house and three holes for the the PC. Basically it drops one of the the hot legs from the 50 amp. I would have to question if you have 30 or 50 amps in the PC. If you do how does it work?

Good description Tom, I was wondering the same thing.  I suppose the main breaker could be 50 amp instead of 30 amp since the incoming shore cable is rated at 50 amp; then the sub-circuits after the 50 amp main could be the same as on a 30 amp rig but more of them could be on at the same time without blowing the main 50 amp.

This is different from a typical 50 amp Class A rig where as you stated there are two 50 amp hot leads and two 50 amp main breakers which totals 100 amps.  A 30 amp rig has 30 amps total and it appears that this 50 amp PC has 50 amps total, which seems fine for a rig the size of a PC, 100 amps would be overkill for a typical Class C.

Bob


Well, I should have thought about this more before replying.  Earl is correct in that both 30 amp and 50 amp plugs have 3 prongs on the RV end; however, the 50 amp plug has a ground contact on the outside of the barrel that makes a total of 4 contacts- same number as the pedestal end.

So, the question remains, does PC provide two 50 amp main breakers and what do they do with all that power, 100 amps vs 30 amps?  If you had a second roof AC unit then you would need more than 30 amps.

Bob
37  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: At long last - Our PC arrives! on: November 12, 2013, 02:36:09 pm
Bob,

You are correct, there are two 50 amp lines... commonly down each side of the coach.  As for being overkill, think about what the 40 footers need and that there is no option between 30 amp service.

Dick

Dick

I meant overkill for a typical Class C, I edited my post to make clear.

Bob
38  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: At long last - Our PC arrives! on: November 12, 2013, 10:56:44 am
I am no electrician  but I do know that 50 amps requires two hot legs, a neutral and a ground for a total of four legs. 30 amp only requires three legs, one hot, a neutral and a ground. I have a 50 amp (four leg) plug on my house and a 30 amp (three leg) plug on the PC. So I have a dog bone that has four legs for the house and three holes for the the PC. Basically it drops one of the the hot legs from the 50 amp. I would have to question if you have 30 or 50 amps in the PC. If you do how does it work?

Good description Tom, I was wondering the same thing.  I suppose the main breaker could be 50 amp instead of 30 amp since the incoming shore cable is rated at 50 amp; then the sub-circuits after the 50 amp main could be the same as on a 30 amp rig but more of them could be on at the same time without blowing the main 50 amp.

This is different from a typical 50 amp Class A rig where as you stated there are two 50 amp hot leads and two 50 amp main breakers which totals 100 amps.  A 30 amp rig has 30 amps total and it appears that this 50 amp PC has 50 amps total, which seems fine for a rig the size of a PC, 100 amps would be overkill for a typical Class C.

Bob
39  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Drive line vibration diagnosis on: October 28, 2013, 01:07:13 pm
skipper,

I am sorry to read that your saga continues.  At least a resolution is at hand.

Reading through your post has me thinking about the joints on my E350.  Do I have grease fittings there?  I need to inspect them.  If I have only caps, I'll install fittings, and then grease as I have done up front with my ball joints and steering linkage.  Our rig now has near 22,000 miles.

Ron,

On my 2010 2551, I have only one greaseable u-joint.  It is the front u-joint on the short aftermarket driveshaft added by the shop that lengthened the frame.  The other three are sealed u-joints from Ford.  The zirk fitting is hard to see, it is in the center of the body and the grease is forced out to all four caps, some greaseable u-joints have a zirk fitting on one of the end caps and the grease finds it's way through the body to the other three caps.

You said that your rig has not been lengthened, so you likely have the Ford sealed u-joints and I don't believe you can add zirks to the sealed ones.

Bob


Skipper,

If your 2013 2552 has the same three Ford sealed u-joints and one greaseable aftermarket u-joint, did the mechanic only replace the one u-joint so that all four are now sealed?  I suppose it is possible that Ford has changed to geaseable u-joints and he changed them all?

I know that geaseable vs sealed u-joints is not important to you at this time as you struggle through the vibration issue, I was just scratching my head about it.  I hope they get the vibration fixed, it must be very frustrating to not be able to sit back and just enjoy the ride, I know it would bug the heck out of me and be the focus of my attention.

Bob
40  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Which shocks come standard from the factory? on: October 26, 2013, 01:14:22 pm
Upgrade complete. Had the Safe-T-Plus steering control and (anti?) Sway Bar installed. The unit (2012 2350 on Ford chassis) still tends to "meander" a bit between the white lines, albeit less so than before. However the back-and-forth side-to-side "wallowing" it did while driving is now thankfully gone. It drives solid and straight without the lateral "rolling" it used to do.

I opted out of having the shocks replaced and am now not sure whether or not adding HD shocks to the equation would have made any difference. I'll have a better idea once I get some miles on the rig with these new changes. Maybe I'll get bold and adventurous and try to replace the shocks myself!

Thanks again for the assistance.

Steve



Steve,

I know this has been mentioned in many other posts but not in this one so I thought I would throw it out.  The "meandering" you are still feeling could well be caused by over-inflation of the tires.  The "meandering" I felt with my 2010 2551 was gone when I lowered the tire pressures.  I weighed the RV loaded for travel and found that I could go from 80 psi to 65 psi front and rear, I eventually ended up at 70 front and 75 rear.  You can find the inflation charts from Michelin online.  So, if you have not adjusted your tire pressures for the actual load, I would try that next.

With over-inflated tires, the tires edges are not making good contact with the road and this could cause the "meandering" feeling as the front tires are not properly gripping the road.  Proper inflation for the actual load will provide the optimum footprint for the tire.  If you haven't already done this then it would be worth a try as it doesn't cost anything.

Bob A
41  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 2012 Honda CR-V battery discharged after tow on: October 18, 2013, 04:32:55 pm
Bob, Just clarifying...."fuse in line in the fuse box" You are referring to protection in the PC.

Yes, the fuse box under the hood of the Ford where the relay is, thanks for clarifying Ron.
42  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 2012 Honda CR-V battery discharged after tow on: October 18, 2013, 01:44:36 pm
I'm still not certain what our next step should be.  Do we just attach a single wire to a connection inside of the CR-V's wiring socket that will extend the 12v line to the CR-V's positive battery post, or do we also need to connect a wire to the negative lead to extended it to the CR-V's negative battery post or to ground?

Bruce

If I type fast, I can beat Ron on this one.  Use a single wire from the socket to the positive battery post.  Ford uses 12 gauge wire for this circuit so you should continue with that gauge.  There is a fuse in line in the fuse box under the hood that protects the circuit.

Bob
43  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 2012 Honda CR-V battery discharged after tow on: October 17, 2013, 08:10:19 pm

If we find any of the six connectors empty there (and they will match up to the 12v pins of the coily cable), do we just add wires there that will run directly to the towd's battery posts to complete the battery maintenance feature?
I believe you are correct.  I think it is that simple.  But keep in-mind of my story one reply higher.  You might need to unplug the coily cable from either end when parked for the night.  The alternative would be to add a diode in that 12V hot wire inside the tow vehicle so 12V will travel from your PC to the tow vehicle's battery, but not from the T.V. back to your PC.

Sorry Ron for challenging your response Smile, but Bruce may not need to add a diode or unplug the coily cable if his 2014 is wired the same as my 2010, and I would bet they are the same.  Ford runs the 12 volt charge line through a relay that is only energized in the run position of the ignition key.  So when the engine is off, the charge line is isolated at the relay which is in the fuse box under the hood.  You can verify this by checking with your multimeter that there is an open circuit on the charge line from the toad end of the coily cable to the frame of the PC with the ignition off and 12v when the ignition is on.  When the toad is connected and the ignition is off, the toad battery is not being discharged by anything on the PC, but there may still be something on the toad discharging the battery but at least the battery is kept charged while being towed.

Bob
44  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Drive line vibration diagnosis on: October 14, 2013, 07:38:22 pm
Mark,

Sound like you are on the right track in getting to the root of the problem.  Some time ago I ran across a Ford bulletin regarding driveline angles in modified Econoline cutaways used for RVs.  It describes the problems that can be associated with improper driveline angles and the solutions.  It is very technical but may be of some use as you go forward to try and resolve the issue.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/Q40.PDF

Bob
45  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: "TOW Haul" feature as shown on dash and trans light keeps coming on. on: October 14, 2013, 03:25:52 pm
It is my understanding that the "service soon" light is based on both time and miles, if it was not reset the last time you had your oil changed it may have just "timed out" and needs to be reset.  Most manafacturers have a sequence to go thru with the ingnition or other reset keys that will reset the clock/miles in the ECM and away you go, you should be able to do this sequence yourself.  I would not worry much about that light being on (unlike the check engine light)  since i do not beleieve that in 2010 the  E-450 had onboard dignostics that actaully evaluated the condiiton of the oil in real time and send a meesage when the oil is actually reaching the end of its life the way 2013 cars currently operate.... I may be wrong

On my 2010 E450 (same as OPs), the "Service Engine Soon" symbol is not used to indicate that normal maintenance servicing is required such as an oil change.  According to the manual, the "Service Engine Soon" symbol on the 2010 E450 indicates the On Board Diagnostics System (OBD II) has detected a malfunction.  This would require that the OBD II system be checked for codes to determine what the malfunction is.  There are hundreds of codes, some are government mandated and some are vehicle manufacturer specific, and the malfunction can be a small issue or very serious.  So the "Service Engine Soon" symbol is in fact a check engine light and should be investigated soon.

My other vehicles have those systems that indicate oil change required after time, miles, or monitoring of engine load.  Maybe the later E350/450s have some sort of maintenance reminder indicator in addition to the OBDII malfunction indicator?

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