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1  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Length of 2450. Bumper to bumper on: Today at 12:34:34 pm
Ron ThankYou, the picture really help.My wife likes the fact that the chair swivels and reclines, looks nice. Thanks.      Bev and  Tim. Cheers
You are very welcome!

Just so you know, people with the Euro chair rave over it's comfort.  If you'll never need that seat for a 3rd passenger, you might consider the Euro chair.  It is more friendly with a slide out than without like ours.  The extra floor space created from the slide out, allows the Euro chair to be moved about the cabin.
2  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Length of 2450. Bumper to bumper on: Today at 08:23:46 am
I believe it was in 1984, maybe 1985 when the RV industry was required to supply seat belts for every "official" seating position inside all motor homes.  If you bought a used rig without seat belts, most likely the previous owner removed them.  All PC dinettes, couches, and fixed individual seats have seat belts.

Regarding the later day Euro chair in many newer PCs including model 2350, it is not an "official" seating position.  It is not attached to the motor home for use when the rig is in motion.  It has a simple storing clamp to prevent it from moving around while the rig is driven.  Therefore it does not have seat belts.  If considering any PC with a Euro chair, you will have to replace it with a fixed chair typically mounted on a pedestal, bolted through the floor of the motor home.  If ordering a new PC, just ask the factory to do that for you, I believe at no extra charge.  I do not recommend the low back chair called a barrel chair.  Our rig originally came with that one but I replaced it with a 3rd matching captain seat for improved comfort and safety for a 3rd passenger along with great comfort when parked.  The low back barrel chair is not good for relaxing.

Here are pictures of our 3rd occupant captain seat with seat belts.  The pedestal it mounts to swivels and slides out from the center.

In this orientation I often slide the seat forward, (away from the wall) recline and use the dinette bench seat cushion as an ottoman.

My wife demonstrating one of many positions, here to watch a movie in comfort.
When sliding the seat in this position but into the isle, that passenger can look out the front window much better.  Their feet end up in between the two front seats.

For reference, here is a Euro chair.  Note the base is a metal ring that is not attached to the floor.
This seat is NOT to be used when driving.
3  Main Forum / Adventure Anywhere / Re: Advice on visiting Glacier National Park on: September 20, 2014, 11:13:18 pm
Regarding Bear In Glacier NP,

We had a number of bear sightings, but all in the area of Many Glaciers, and mostly along the road.  The hike to Ice Berg Lake, we saw a bear in the distance.  The trail was busy with hikers and we heard from others that the bear crossed the trail at one point.  While at Many Glaciers lodge there, we saw bear on the hills maybe a city block or two away.  Binoculars are a must for those viewings.

I would never let bear stories get in the way of enjoying a hike or other park activity.  If you want some peace of mind, buy a can of bear spray like my wife wanted.  It is extremely potent, an "X" amount of times stronger than pepper spray.  It has to be since you are spraying a cloud of it 30 feet away from you rather than a short pin-point stream like pepper spray.  Bear spray can be purchased in many area stores.  You really can't miss it.  We spend $30 or $40 on a larger can of it and always carried it when hiking.  It comes with a holster that attaches to one's belt for very easy access.

4  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: REAR AXEL OVER LOADED on: September 15, 2014, 12:12:47 pm
My 3100S fully loaded including two adults, one dog and full tanks (not sewer tanks) came in at 4,460 lbs front (540 lbs under max.); rear was 9,140 lbs, (360 lbs under max) for a total of 13,600 lbs (900 lbs under max).  I run the tires at the inflation rate as determined from the Michelin tables at  70 lbs front and 74 lbs rear.  Not sure what the actual calculated tongue weight is for my new Jeep Cherokee but I would guess I am still under max GVW and OK from the CGVW since the jeep's weight is 4250 lbs.   I  guess those three slides are sure heavy on the 29's?  I wonder how other brands put larger boxes on the 450 chassis and offer three slides as well, they must be way over weight coming out of the gate?   Hope this helps, thanks, Ron
So if you travelled with two or three additional people and heir belongings as the sleeping accommodations dictate, you would be right close to the limit, not over it.  ThumbsUp  That scenario is an "extreme" condition of which few would practice, but good to know it can be done.
5  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: REAR AXEL OVER LOADED on: September 15, 2014, 08:59:42 am
This thread is an eye opener for me with Phoenix.  It is well known that cut-away chassis rigs in general, have issues with weight in the longer lengths.  This is the first time I heard any PC having this problem.  But it really should not be surprising when considering the length plus 3 slide-outs of model 2910T.  It has me wondering the actual loaded up weight of a 2910D and 3100.  How much more weight do their slide outs add?  The tiny slide out option offered for our 2007 2350 added 400 pounds back in the day.

Regardless, it does seem the solution (under the circumstances here) to your problem is bigger tires with a higher weight rating.  As far as extra springs, I feel that if the rig is not sagging when loaded up, you wouldn't need them.  More springs will make for a rougher ride.  Who really knows about the actual limits of the rear axle assembly.

I hope you conclude with a satisfactory resolution.
6  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: REAR AXEL OVER LOADED on: September 10, 2014, 09:30:08 pm
Jim jas,

In the past, PC has placed a sticker about 6" x 5" or so, located on the inside of the right side kitchen galley door.  Maybe they place it inside another door today.  It explains the weight of the rig and the weight of added contents such as fresh water and propane, and the final CCC.

Regarding tire pressure recommendations, PC had always placed a sticker in the driver door jamb, for the recommended tire pressure, front and back tires.

If you don't have the stickers, call the factory and ask for them.  I am confident they will send them to you.
7  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: PC vs.Nexus on: September 09, 2014, 05:13:31 pm
Ron--I swear I thought you were gonna say all those big families could  stick their kids in those nice big storage bins! rolling on the floor just kill me.  Smile
8  Main Forum / Tips and Tricks / Re: Over-sink cutting board on: September 09, 2014, 09:46:43 am
I bought a large thick white plastic cutting board.  I really like your idea.  I think I will cut our board to drop into that space.  A fantastic idea you have there.   ThankYou  A "Mark Helpful" for you.

That is such a great idea, I think that something the factory should be including.
9  Main Forum / Tips and Tricks / Re: Rust on interior of door frame on: September 09, 2014, 09:44:22 am
All of your posts prommpted me to check my 2012 2552 and found the same problem rust.  I figure it is a result of my trip down to Florida last winter.  One question I have , did anyone remove the electric step before applying chassis saver.  It would seem that there probably is rust under the step.  I also found rust on other things under motorhome and plan treat them as well.  How far doesa quart of this stuff go?
I was all ready to apply a couple coats of protection.  It had ben many years since I looked under there and assumed it was screaming for help.  But our step box is hardly rusted, more like virgin metal with a little more than discoloration.  But what really stopped me was that I would definitely remove that step mechanism to do it right.  I figured given our particular situation, it was not worth  doing yet.

Our rig has not seen salt as of yet and stored indoors, apparently why so little degradation.
10  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: PC vs.Nexus on: September 08, 2014, 09:43:18 am
Extra storage is great only if you have the ability to safely carry the extra stuff otherwise you have very nice, but empty, bins.
 You are right about that.  Some manufactures offer huge storage but is weight-capable deficient.  I think those rigs are ideal for a young family so the parents can haul all the kids huge light-weight plastic riding & play toys to the camp ground.....very bulky but no weight.
11  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: New PC owner Coaster on: September 08, 2014, 09:04:34 am
We just bought a 2013 PC 2350 frrom Earl in July. We are retired and live in Chicago and Englewood Florida for the winter. If you have found any groups or clubs we should join, let us know. Looking forward to using our PC.

Chet & Marsha
Yet another new PC owner.  It is great that so many new owners get connected on this form.  We learn so much from each other.  Welcome Chet & Marsha.
12  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself! on: September 08, 2014, 09:02:19 am

We are the new owners of the 2013 custom gold painted 2400 PC shown on the PC website and on Tube.  Bought it in Ft. Pierce FL the beginning of Aug and took our first 2 week trip to Missouri to see friends last week.  We named it The Bear Den since our 10 yr old rescue male Bichon, Polar Bear, and our 12 yr old Sun Conure Parrot named Sun Bear, travel with us. This was our first RV and first time camping. The dog bed fits nicely behind the drivers seat and the bird cage between the chairs during the day and on the back counter by the ref at night.  A good time was had by all until the trip home.  A rock went through the windshield, kicked up by dump truck in AL.  Insurance company had it fixed by SafeLite promptly.  Then our slide got stuck and the cabinet side would not move.  Were able to manually push it in and out until we got home and call Kermit.  Will be working on fixing it this week. Anyone with tips or tricks please respond.  We stayed mostly at State Parks with full hook ups.  No reservations just stopped when we were tired.

We looked for 6 months and the 2400 was the only unit for us. We did not want to waste space on a separate bedroom, wanted the door at the back, kitchen, bathroom and comfortable seating were a must.  This unit gives us all that and more.  Everything we need fits and everyone is comfortable.  Love our new PC even with the glitches..javascript:void(0);
Steve and Paulette (and the Bears)
Another new PC owner.  Awesome!  Welcome.

13  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself! on: September 08, 2014, 09:01:06 am
Hello   I just picked up our 2919T on Tue. 8 26 2014. The people at the factory was very helpful. Spent the last 2 days cleaning outside and inside.
 Will load Monday for our first trip next week with the Grandkids on the week end.  We have had two 5 wheels pulled with GMC 3500 dis. This is my first Ford will see how it goes.
I have been on the discussion board about 12 weeks to see what problems I can expect with a new unit.  Thanks for all the tips.

    jas   Huntington WV
Hi jas,
Welcome to the Phoenix family!
14  Main Forum / Tips and Tricks / Ron's Tips For Class C /B+ Shoppers on: September 07, 2014, 11:56:35 pm
I post this on occasion as a reply to people shopping for a class C on, and thought it would be of interest to people browsing this PC forum.  It morph'd into more of an article rather than a reply.  It is an objective opinion (or so I tried), not a sales pitch for a PC, though I use my own 2007 PC-2350 as a given "positive" example.  


New, used, or well used, when shopping for any conventional class-C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed.  This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and the punishment of road motion.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed.  Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites.  By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.5 to 2 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type.   My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans, many thousands of times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lesser stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the vans roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional C Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in  This Model.  Winnebago's View Here is another fine example.  Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas.  The Nexus Phantom and the Minnie Winnie apply a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice over a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down the wall a few inches. The fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress.  Some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment.  Not only are they convenience features, but it offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing adjoining seam work.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed.  Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example.  If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also rare exception like the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of those three brands since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter is the least powered chassis. People who tow with a Sprinter, take it slower.

If considering a recent small class B+/C motor home, here is a comparison between the two main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator.  Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer.  You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years, and even more anticipated with the upcoming Ford T-Series chassis.  The general public hopes it will become available for the RV industry.  It is kind-of like a Sprinter in size and fuel economy, but hopeful to be much more affordable and easier to get serviced.  Just introduced in 2014 is the Dodge Ram ProMaster chassis.  Unfortunately, because it is offered only with a single rear wheel axle, it cannot handle the weight of most motor homes.  It is also the only cut-away chassis that is front wheel drive.  The ProMaster chassis is in the same family as the VW chassis used in the Winnebago Rialta made from 1996 to 2005.

The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
I do not understand why this chassis is not more popular.  It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter.  It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs.  They are also a little better on fuel consumption.  One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches to store your rig, the Chevy adds an additional 6" to the front bumper compared to the Ford.  I learned that researching rigs that could fit in my 25'-0" deep garage.  By default, the Ford gave me 6" more to work with.  If you examine my motor home in my garage HERE, you will see our Ford E350 is quite tight already.  That could be some of the reason why the Chevy offers a little more interior driver/passenger space.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, Sprinter, & Chevy
Ford - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
15  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: PC vs.Nexus on: September 07, 2014, 07:29:05 am
Since we are discussing quality, on I recall around 2008-2009 that Fleetwood had serious quality issues.  One story in particular, a new owner seeing sun light beaming inside one of his hanging kitchen cabinets.  The solution was of coarse caulk.  Soon thereafter the company got bought out, but I don't recall by whom.

Reading story after story of different sagas from a variety of motor home manufactures, I learned much about good versus poor construction.  My replies on quality got more and more detailed to the point that it looks more like an magazine article than a reply.

I should try copying that reply of mine into a new post here.
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