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1  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself! on: Today at 12:20:19 pm
Hi Fred and Paula,

Welcome to the PC forum family!

I am not an authority on this one, but I think towing a classic vehicle or steamer on a trailer would be much better towed by model 2552 rather than model 3100.  It has to do with the ratio of wheel base to over-all length.  The 2552 should provide better towing stability along with notably less weight resting on the rear axle.  I understand model 3100 with it's slide out is quite heavy all by itself.  If you don't care about a slide out, model 2552 without the optional slide out will weight approximately 600 pounds less which might also help with your heavy towing requirement.  I believe Phoenix has been installing a 7500 towing hitch as of late on all it's models.  If not, I would "special request" one.  Because of your unique towing requirement, I would also consider heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars along with a rear track bar.  They would be affordable insurance for safer travels.

Ron Dittmer
2  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Gravity Fill for Freshwater Tank on: February 21, 2018, 02:29:13 pm
It sure does sound like sailer35's filler tube and/or the vent tube is collapsed, not allowing an adequate flow of fresh water inside and/or tank-air to escape.  If not up to the task of inspecting the two tubes, extending a semi-stiff filler hose into the tank itself should provide an alternate solution.
3  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Gravity Fill for Freshwater Tank on: February 21, 2018, 12:38:48 pm
This is what I have used for 15 years and never had a problem fill the fresh water:

Yes, that would be the official version!
4  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Gravity Fill for Freshwater Tank on: February 20, 2018, 09:45:30 pm
Another thing to try is get a thin 1/2" garden hose and cut off all but the last two feet.  Add that to your typical fresh water hose and stuff it down inside the hole so the end of the hose is inside the tank itself.  The air in the tank will find it's way out both the vent and the filler hole.
5  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Utilizing Black Tank for Gray Water Overage on: February 20, 2018, 07:27:47 pm
A few questions to those of you that use the gravity flushing of the grey tank to the black tank as Ron described above:

Can you actually fill the entire black tank with this process?

Why are you NOT concerned about cross contamination of gases and fluids between the two systems?

My experience with the blending of tanks is that when we do it, it is almost always done one time between dumps.  Very rarely have we done it twice.  By that time, we are nearly completely out of fresh water of which we try hard not to wait that long.

It has been extremely rare when in a situation where we have campsite water but not a dump.  I recall only one time where we carried both a full tank of fresh water along with significant waste water also on-board.  Usually when fresh water is available but a dump is not, when permitted by campground rules, we slowly release gray water into adjacent woods instead of blending tanks.  That buys a lot more time before requiring to dump.

Concerning back-washing black water into the gray waste system, I am sure it is possible but is surely very limited.  I can't imagine it backing up through the gray waste pipes all the way to the shower pan where it would present a problem.  Still I see your concern.  If you want to play it most safe, I recommend blending the tanks only once between dumps.
6  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Utilizing Black Tank for Gray Water Overage on: February 20, 2018, 03:29:32 pm
Hi Sailers35,

Yes it works very well.  We have practiced it often for 10 years with our PC.  The procedure is as follows.

- open gray tank valve (this floods the drain pipes right up to the black tank valve)
- open black tank valve (the deeper gray water will rush into the shallow black water inside the black tank)
- close black tank valve after 15 to 20 seconds
- close gray tank valve

This process is not just good for extending your time between dumps, but flooding gray water into the black tank helps to clean out the black tank at dump-time.

I am making a modification with our 2350, adding duplicate dump-valve switches inside our bathroom inside the vanity base cabinet.  This will allow us to blend the tanks from inside our PC which is most often needed during our shower time.
7  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Fresh water capacity on: February 20, 2018, 12:17:09 pm
The hot water heater is included in the PC weight sticker inside the motor home, but the fresh water capacity specifications in their brochure and website does not include it.  For example model 2552 HERE says it holds 45 gallons of fresh water.  That does not consider the hot water tank.
8  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Tank Heater on: February 20, 2018, 08:22:42 am
Hi G&E,

The tank heaters won't burn up if left on.  Theoretically, you can leave them on indefinitely.  Some people accidentally do.  Your 2005 model does have only one battery so you will need to be watchful of draining your battery when the heaters are left on overnight.  One or two batteries, it is ideal to be plugged into shore power when the tank heaters are on and you are parked for the night.  Tank heaters can be kept on all the time during the day if driving your motor home during the day for your chassis engine alternator will maintain your house battery properly.

Ron Dittmer
9  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Kyle no longer with Phoenix on: February 20, 2018, 08:13:20 am
Since 2007 when we bought our PC, person #4 will be taking on Kyle's position.  I wouldn't make anything of it.

I do wish Kyle (and his family) all the best for his contributions.  He did seem to be a great asset for Phoenix.
10  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Proud Owner of a 2009 PC on: February 17, 2018, 09:01:51 am
Congratulations ROO!

I love your rig with full body paint and especially your no-slide-out with twin captain seats & center table.  After your first big trip, I'd love to hear how well that arrangement works for you.

11  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Built in GPS on: February 03, 2018, 01:12:11 pm
We elected to go with a separate Garmin model.  Cheaper, free updates and most important: the co-pilot can work on it while you are moving.
Like jatrax, a hand-held GPS (and smart phone now-a-days) is best for us.  Irene loves to handle it in the co-pilot seat.

Not just the cost for updates, another serious issue about most built-in GPS units is that they don't let you change your destination while the vehicle is being driven.

When we bought our 2014 Nissan Altima, we didn't want to pay for the GPS upgrade in the radio.  So we ended up with the smart radio minus the GPS.  It is real hard to beat today's smart phones for most areas, but a GPS is great when there is no cell coverage.

If you are a lover of technology and want the most in your PC, get the built-in GPS and use the other devises mentioned when the in-dash is not serving you well.
12  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: What do you consider a MUST for a Phoenix Cruiser on: February 01, 2018, 04:41:10 pm
Since accumulator tanks are pressurized they should self drain when the drains are opened. Suspect it doesn't hurt to have them in a vertical mounted position to ensure draining.

Thank you. Will ask for that.
Actually, the accumulator drains out 99.99999% of the water regardless of the orientation.

Think of it like this.
- Imagine a glass jar filled with water.
- The lid on the jar has two holes.
- Place a large balloon inside the water-filled jar with it's end passing out through one of the holes in the lid.
- Blow air into the balloon.
- Water shoots out the other hole.
- Keep blowing in air until the balloon completely fills the jar.
- 99.99999% of the water is now out of the jar regardless of orientation.

An accumulator is just that.  With it pre-pressurized to the right PSI inside, you can see the balloon called a bladder, inside pressed against a perforated metal grate-like screen.  That screen prevents the bladder from popping out the opening.  The shape of the tank and bladder together assures that all the water gets forced out.  Any residual water remaining inside the accumulator is exceptionally minute with no concern of freeze damage.

I would let Phoenix determine the best orientation of the tank in the limited space they might be working with.

If your PC has room, I recommend a 2 gallon tank.  We have a 2 gallon tank and it's pump-cycling intervals seem perfect.  When full, the tank holds roughly one gallon of water and one gallon-volume of compressed air.  I am really guessing wildly on a 50/50 air to water ratio, stated only to help visualize how it works.
13  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Batteries on: February 01, 2018, 10:28:31 am
Ron, a voltage drop when using any significant amount of battery power is normal.

The 'proper' test of battery voltage is:
- disconnect battery from any load
- charge battery fully
- wait at least 1 hour after charge complete
- test voltage

That will give you the only 'true' voltage.  You cannot get a true voltage when the battery is under load.  But that is really only for testing a suspect battery.  A volt meter in line as you have gives you an instant reading on the state of the battery relative to normal operations.  Which is all you need to tell how things are going.

But any load on the battery will pull the voltage down as long as it is present.  That is just how the lead - acid cycle works.

Other batteries, particularly Lithium have different load curves and their voltage will react differently to a load.
Thank you for the explanation jatrax!
14  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Batteries on: February 01, 2018, 09:48:09 am

About the volt meter I installed in our PC.  It measures the voltage where I wired it into the stove hood monitor panel.  It is NOT measuring across the battery terminals.  When I turn on a light or two, the voltage doesn't change.  But if we turn on more things, the voltage drops a little.  When I turn off everything again, the voltage increases again.  So during a heavy-use evening the voltage can drop significantly.  Because I maintain the batteries well, it does not drop below 12.1V.  If memory serves me well, the drop is as much as 0.3 volts pending what we have running.

I should perform this experiment.
- Using a hand-held volt meter, measure the voltage across the two 6V batteries with everything off.
- Then turn on a bunch of stuff to get the voltage dropping significantly on the volt meter I installed.
- Then measure the voltage across the two 6V batteries again.
It would tell me if it is better to wire the volt meter across the batteries to avoid the fluctuating read-out.

To you with a serious battery monitor, do you see the same fluctuations I do with our simple volt meter?
15  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Batteries on: January 31, 2018, 06:37:23 pm
Im really unknowing in all this so bare with me if my question seems dumb, as it probably is. Why is it so important to never let my batteries go below 12.1?
The simple answer is because everyone says so.  Smile

You do ask a very good question.  I am no expert, but from what I gather, the battery gets damaged when you get below 12.1 volts.  If you drained it one time down to 11.9V, I doubt you would do significant permanent harm, but doing so repeatedly is something else.  With each incident, a full charge is less full than the time prior.

I have learned to be anal about that 12.1V number.  Draining to no less than 12.1V is working well for us.  But I don't wait until it gets to 12.1V.  Most often I charge at a higher voltage to avoid excessive generator run times.  If we plan to spend an evening inside, staying up late watching a movie and such, I will plan ahead and charge the batteries using a strong external 40 amp step charger with the generator, anticipating an extended drain in the evening.  FYI: Our on-board Tripp-Lite inverter/charger has a max of 20 amps hence using the 40 amp external charger to reduce generator run times.

Oh, I see jatrax commented just above me.  I like his reply.
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