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1  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Rain Water Leaks into coach. on: December 09, 2017, 09:57:14 pm
ANOTHER water leak found. This one from the outside shower unit.  In the inside picture, note the reflection in 'Lake Commode'  of the drain pipe. The line of drips across the bottom of the outside shower unit made it an easy diagnosis.  Looking at the  outside picture you can see it pulled away from the wall a slight bit... that soaked the shelf in the bathroom.  The shelf is dished from previous water leaks there, guess I overlooked that on inspection.
Boy oh boy, the surprises keep coming.  I feel for you.  Hopefully you can tackle each issue with successful permanent results.
2  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Rain Water Leaks into coach. on: December 09, 2017, 09:42:19 pm
I have an unrelated question.  I assume your 2006 PC-2350 is built on either a 2005 or 2006 Ford E350 chassis.  Do you know what a stabilizer bar looks like?  If so, look under your rig and see if you have one for your rear axle.  You won't unless the previous owner installed one.  Also check your front stabilizer bar.  The Ford stock front stabilizer bar, the ends of it go into holes inside the front lower suspension.  If you see any gap between the bar and the end rubber grommets (I suspect you will) your front bar is worn.  Installing heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars will be well worth the extra investment for driving safety and comfort.  CLICK HERE  to read more about it.  CLICK HERE to read how to check your own suspension.

I have read both the links you reference, and many others here from you. I am one who 'lurks' for some time before posting to avoid repeating questions.
I am familiar with renewing the end link and frame bushings on the sway bar, upgrading to graphite impregnated 'urethane to avoid creaks and squeaks. Are you saying the bar itself wears out or the bushings? I have seen them bend to be unusable, but never 'wear out'
Rear sway and track bar, oversize front bar, shocks and airbags are all on the wish list as we intend on towing a trailer on festival outings. Not currently budgeted, however.  Embarrassed  

The front Ford stabilizer bar end bushings (also called grommets) is what wears and does so very quickly.  The steel stabilizer bar itself is severely under-rated for the full load of a motor home, rendering it nearly ineffective.  Add the end rubber grommet wear and it's a decoration.

Making this clear for the other readers here....If you have a 2008 Ford chassis or newer, you have a better front stabilizer bar design direct from Ford.  Your bar is still under-rated for the load of a motor home, but your end links are not rubber grommets and don't have the quick-wear issue.
3  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 15 Amp Service Connection on: December 09, 2017, 02:18:53 pm
I am concerned any 120V electric on a moving slide-out runs a risk of something going wrong via an over-sight, forgetting you have it plugged in somewhere.  A power cord inside or outside could get pinched or stretched or sheared off.

I would place the pictured pass-thru on a fixed exterior wall, maybe adjacent to the 30 amp if accessible.  An alternate location might be near your exterior fridge or furnace panels.  Maybe near the single battery compartment there....if you have the single battery.  Or does your 2006 have twin batteries by the main entry door, the same as later model years?  2006 was the transition year from one to two batteries.

On the inside,  I would wire a duplex outlet via Romex (or better) & junction box mounted near the floor in the area of your wall closet or fridge.  Make it all 20 amp because your 2006 has 20 amp, 12 gauge wire throughout.  Any owner mods should follow the same practice for the same reason....wire & termination over-load insurance.


4  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Rain Water Leaks into coach. on: December 09, 2017, 01:06:57 pm
At a glace the rear wall does not look bad, but like you say, when studying it closer, it appears the rear wall had pulled away.  I suspect a previous owner clipped a tree maneuvering the rig in a camp-site.....a very common owner error.  I assume the rear wall ripped away from the inner wall, screws and all.  The repair appears to have involved pushing the wall back into position and attached it in a less than ideal manner.  If you plan to own the rig for a long time, I advise to have Phoenix install a brand new wall and be forever done with the matter.  If you are like many people here on this forum who change motor homes frequently, then try your best to reinforce and increase the attachment points around the area of damage, and get the seam in proper alignment so the finish trim is straightened out.  Being in Florida, you might have a skilled local boat repair shop that can handle it all in a proper manner.  But watch out for the cost of repair.  They may charge nearly as much as a brand new wall installed by Phoenix.

About your storage door holding water in between the inner and outer skins.  I just looked at my 2007 2350 under-bed outdoor storage compartment door.  It has 3 weep holes  maybe 1/8" x 1/4" in size, perfectly manufactured.  They are along the bottom edge located outside the weather strip so collected water drips out onto the street.  Make sure your holes are free and clear of debris.  Maybe some original manufacturing dust and fiberglass bits have plugged up your 3 holes.
5  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Rain Water Leaks into coach. on: December 09, 2017, 08:03:16 am
You learned a lot overnight.

A 2006 entry door is the same one used in a new 2018.  It sounds like you should order the thicker main entry door seal from Phoenix.

If any water is coming in between the main entry door frame and the wall, that would require caulking.  Look for cracks in the existing caulk.  Many seams are trimmed off with a 3/4 x 1/8" plastic trim and caulked on each side, but between door frame and wall I think it's a single seam.  Also check the tiny rain gutter across the top of the door, making sure it is clean and sealed properly against the wall.

I am curious about your rear exterior wall damage.  Could you post a picture of it?  You have me wondering how deep the impact went.  It sounds like it affected the rear structural interior wall.  You mentioned the rear compartment gets wet but has good drainage.  Are you referring to the large rear under-bed storage compartment?  Or the shallow rear storage compartment integrated into the rear wall?

When we visited Phoenix a year ago, walking the factory floor I recall seeing a unit being built.  It was about to have the exterior fiberglass rear wall installed.  Oh how I wished I had taken pictures there.  If your interior rear interior wall is compromised with water getting inside on the bed, the proper repair might include removing the exterior fiberglass wall to repair the interior wall.  If that is your situation, you might want to call Phoenix for an estimate to have them repair the body damage.  They will be able to replace your fiberglass exterior rear wall if the damage to it interferes with a proper repair.

Phoenix is now under new ownership so what I am about to say might be different.  But maybe 6 years ago, someone bought an early model year PC with rear wall damage resulting in leakage.  Phoenix removed the rear wall, made proper repairs, and put it all back together like brand new for around $3000.  For you, being the slowest time of year it is in December for Phoenix, you might be able to schedule such a dramatic repair.  It might take them a day or two to get it done.  As well, Phoenix will know how to deal with your entry door leak and water damage.  Provide them with pictures to help them provide accurate estimates.  The cost might be worth the ride out and back and the few days spent there.  Nobody knows how to repair a PC better than Phoenix, and nobody has the right spare parts in stock like they do.  Though their hourly rate has increased, they are also dang efficient at doing the repairs costing you fewer hours of labor.  If our PC was in a significant accident causing water infiltration like you describe, Phoenix would be my place to run to.

Concerning the dripping of water inside your PC from your brand new roof a/c unit, that does not sound right to me.  Something is wrong there.  I suspect the new a/c seal (or reused original seal) is deformed or seated improperly, allowing rain water and/or condensed water from the a/c unit back inside.

Call Phoenix.  Get some prices from them.

I have an unrelated question.  I assume your 2006 PC-2350 is built on either a 2005 or 2006 Ford E350 chassis.  Do you know what a stabilizer bar looks like?  If so, look under your rig and see if you have one for your rear axle.  You won't unless the previous owner installed one.  Also check your front stabilizer bar.  The Ford stock front stabilizer bar, the ends of it go into holes inside the front lower suspension.  If you see any gap between the bar and the end rubber grommets (I suspect you will) your front bar is worn.  Installing heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars will be well worth the extra investment for driving safety and comfort.  CLICK HERE  to read more about it.  CLICK HERE to read how to check your own suspension.
6  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Rain Water Leaks into coach. on: December 07, 2017, 08:34:00 am
Hi Volkemon,

Getting a 2006 2350 for less than $25,000 is a very good deal, even considering the issues you are dealing with.  I rarely see a 2350 that low for a model year 2004 or newer.  As jimmer stated, your positive persistence will yield a very good long term relationship with your PC.  Hopefully you will address your issues quickly and transfer your energy into home "improvement" and actual travel.

Please keep us posted along the way.  Being a long term owner myself with a plan to own for over 35 years total, I am particularly interested in things to watch out for as the years pass.
7  Main Forum / Tips and Tricks / Re: Tuning-Up Your Heavy Duty Stabilizer Bars on: December 06, 2017, 10:39:12 am
Well done,  Ron.     Not an easy place to take pictures !     Just wondering,  are those nuts in question of the  locking type ?    Or should  'Loctite'  be used  ?  
You ask a good question.  It surely would not hurt to use Loctite on them.  I did wonder if the play was not just from coming loose, but also from wear-&-tear on the blue polymer bushings themselves.  Maybe the wear-&-tear introduced enough play to start the loosening-nut process.

One thing I did pay attention to.  The nuts never did spin freely.  They always had some resistance when tightening them.  They might be the locking type, or maybe there was just some corrosion causing that.  The nuts did not have the nylon locking feature.  They might have the "dimple locking" feature but I didn't study them for that.

The pictures were taken 10 years ago.  The suspension doesn't look much different today given our seasonal use and storage, just 35,000 miles of additional road grime.
8  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Rain Water Leaks into coach. on: December 05, 2017, 11:59:55 pm
I too have never heard of such a significant exterior leak.

Since I have been under my own 2007 2350 sink a few times, I do know of a few places where water might be coming from.

1) The kitchen faucet water hot and cold water lines connected to the PEX plumbing lines is done with threaded hand-tighten plastic fittings.  They might have worked them self loose over the years causing a small leak when water pressure is present.  Reach up behind the sink and make sure they are tight enough.
I took this picture years ago when I had my faucet out for another reason.  It shows the threaded hand-tighten fittings and their proximity to the counter top.  They have plastic tabs like wing nuts for you to grab better.


2) The hot water heater's 110V heating element is screwed in on the bottom of the tank very close to the floor.  It has a big rubber washer that represents the kind often used on oil filters.  That rubber washer might be cracked creating a leak, or the heating element may have worked itself loose.  You get to the heating element by removing the vertical wood panel in the cabinet under the sink.  WARNING!  even though the hot water tank is drained from the outside, 1/2 gallon of water remains in the hot water tank.  So when removing the 110V heating element, out pours 1/2 gallon of water.  Either siphon the water out through the outside drain plug, or place piles of old towels around the area to absorb the water, and do it a pint at a time.
Here is a heating element showing the rubber washer placed to the side.
9  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 15 Amp Service Connection on: December 05, 2017, 04:35:47 pm
....and have a 12ga cord running out to run a dehumidifier as we sort out water leaks.  pulling hair out
Where is rain water showing up in your PC?  I ask because some time ago I read a few other people experiencing water leaks near the entry door.  The culprit was the electric awning, specifically where the wires pass through from inside to outside to supply power to the drive motor.  Others had water coming in through the slide out.  I don't recall the exact resolution.  What I do recall was that the solution confused me.  Since neither applied to me personally, I didn't give either enough brain power.  Maybe others can help you through the trouble-shooting process.
10  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 15 Amp Service Connection on: December 05, 2017, 09:12:04 am
I agree with jatrax.  Each campground power pedestal could be wired differently.  At the same time, if the power pole is not shared with an adjacent neighbor, use both 30 amp outlets, and use a 30-to-15 amp adapter for the 15 amp power cord for your space heater  It seems easy enough to run a separate 14/3 extension cord from the power pole to your electric space heater inside your PC.  Just make sure not to pinch the cord when closing your van door.  Find the best location in the door jamb that has the least pressure against the extension cord.  Maybe you could tape a short wood dowel rod of the same diameter of the cord, to the cord when closing the door to relieve any pinching of the cord.
11  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Wheel Covers on: December 05, 2017, 08:51:13 am
We bought our PC brand new over 10 years ago.  It has those flexible braided extenders attached to the center hubs.  The rig has around 37,000 miles on it today.  I have not yet disturbed anything with the tires, extenders, or wheel covers, untouched since Phoenix sold the rig to us.  I have never had an issue with a leak, but I fear any disturbance will yield in extender leakage and then wheel cover removal.

I had looked into replacing 4 of the 6 steel wheels with Alcoa alloy wheels when it comes time to replace the tires.  Here were some of the part numbers I found some years ago.

160241 - front wheels polished/finished for front mount
160242 - rear wheels polished/finished for rear mount
?????? - front center hub cap
?????? - rear center hub cap
190 - lug cap x32
13/99/87 - the lugs that accept the caps (I think we have these already)

I recalled locating a company in the south (maybe Alabama) that sold them so much cheaper than everyone else, including shipping.  I wish I kept that information.  Just now I just googled "Alcoa Wheels E350" and found THIS Retailer

You don't want to replace the inside rear wheels from steel to alloy because the rear axle lug stems on the E350/E450 are not long enough for the extra thickness of the Alcoa wheel x2.

Of coarse having Alcoa wheels eliminates tire rotation.  I would never rotate our tires anyway so that works for me.

I've seen high-end motor homes sold with Alcoa wheels and they really look sharp.  Our PC would look so much better with them.  It would be the perfect time, replacing tires and wheels together like that.  I'd then sell my old wheels and tires mounted on them, on Craigslist to recover some of the cost.  A local landscaper in my community running around with older-yet bald tires and bent & rusted wheels on his truck would surely be interested in them.  He can swap them himself on his driveway, keeping his costs lower yet.

Our wheel covers untouched for the past 10+ years.
12  Main Forum / Tips and Tricks / Tuning-Up Your Heavy Duty Stabilizer Bars on: December 03, 2017, 08:35:40 am
I had a rattle in my front suspension for a few years now.  This year it had gotten worse.  Yesterday while putting my rig away for the season, I decided to take a serious look at what might be the issue.  It turned out that my front heavy duty Roadmaster stabilizer bar two end-links had become loose.  There is a U-shaped bracket used like a washer, on the bottom of the end-links that was rattling against the lower connecting bracket.  Tightening the top and bottom end-link nuts, tightened the bushings snug again and I consider the problem solved.  I did not test drive our rig afterward.  I'll find out next year if that eliminated the rattle noise, but I am confident it did.  Rattling or not, there should never be any play in the end links.  I consider the process a stabilizer tune-up because loose end links render the bar less effective.  In the spring, I'll be checking my rear bar for the same.

This picture shows the end links.  They are the vertical bars with a curvature to them with blue bushings top and bottom.  You can see the black U-shape bracket working like a washer, on the bottom of the end links that made the noise.  That black metal bracket/washer was loose and rattling against the shinny bottom metal bracket.  Both top and bottom nuts needed tightening for proper adjustment.  While tightening, I made sure the curvature of the end link curves away from the adjacent steering linkage.  Because my end links were loose, the vertical bars spun freely leaving me to wonder if they occasionally made contact with the steering linkage.


Here you can see the U-shape washer at nearly 90 degrees from the previous picture




You can inspect your Roadmaster front stabilizer bar in just a few seconds.  Get under the front of your RV and make sure the end links curve away from the steering linkage, curving rearward.  Also grab the black U-shaped bracket washer and see if it moves freely.  If either are not right, you have some simple work to do.
13  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Getting your new coach home on: December 02, 2017, 09:05:54 am
Yep, doing the math makes the offer to deliver questionable.  Now if you could use it as an opportunity to visit family and such, that would surely be different.
14  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Getting your new coach home on: December 01, 2017, 03:13:47 pm
I was quoted 1.25 per mile by Earl about 8 months ago.
I assume you means 1.25 dollars per mile.  2200 miles = $2750
15  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Getting your new coach home on: November 30, 2017, 11:20:26 pm
Like others had mentioned, Kermit's son often did the deliveries.  I heard he would often tow his own vehicle for the return trip.

I have never seen a motor home on a flat bed truck, not sure it is even possible without the use of a loading dock.  I would be very concerned of the on/off approach if using a ramp, dragging the back of the PC getting it on the flat bed.  For that reason along with all the other good reasons mentioned by other replies, I strongly vote for flying out to Phoenix and driving the rig home yourself.  Or have jatrax do it for you.  Or someone else you trust.

Heck, depending on the month, even I might be interested.  I live 3 hours from the factory.  I'd have to rent a car to get there, drive your rig home to you, then fly home to O'Hare airport.  Being semi-retired now, I might be available and interested depending on the $.

Ron Dittmer
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