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1426  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Inductive stovetop anyone? on: September 14, 2013, 08:34:04 am
Excellent - tell her we need some good Ron Ditmer stories. Even a Phoenix guru like you HAS to have some great bloopers.
Now you know the real reason.  I won't let her.  Smile
1427  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Inductive stovetop anyone? on: September 14, 2013, 06:43:03 am
Ron, you keep ratting your wife out on things she's done in the PC. When do we hear from her?
Funny you ask.  I would be quite surprised if she got on this or any other of my forums.  She has none of her own, never getting into this style of social networking.  I don't think she manages her Facebook account closely either.  She is an email person of which most involve money saving deals, coupons, Groupons and such.  That's her thing.  But I will let her know that people here on the PC forum are asking, especially with me ratting on her. Smile
1428  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A New Banging Sound After Year #6 - Dead Center In The Headliner Area on: September 13, 2013, 02:44:19 pm
Before I start digging into this, I thought I'd give Kermit a call and see if he had any advise for me.  So I got to talking with him on the phone today and glad I did.

First of all, Kermit really wanted me to drive the rig there, but a three hour drive one way meant an all day ordeal and a day off work, neither which I can afford to do right now.  So we discussed my situation over the phone of which he had some very good pointers for me.

It was interesting to learn that Phoenix had not seen any B+ caps separate from the Ford roof since the earliest model years 1999-2000 of which a change in their production process had addressed that.  So he wonders if my cap is simply flexing, not separating.  He suggested I stand outside and "palm" the B+ cap upward to see if I can actually lift it up.  If something failed, the B+ cap should lift up.

Kermit also mentioned that if there was a failure, I should be getting water dripping down from the headliner when driving in the rain.  Since I do not have water dripping, he thinks I might be okay.  But check for separation to be sure.

Kermit also mentioned the decorative round bead between the B+ cap and roof is only decorative.  It has a 1" tab that secures it but it does not seal out rain water.  There is another much better gasket sandwiched in between cap and roof.

As far as the banging is concerned, Kermit had a a few other customers complain about the same thing.  As ragoodsp mentioned, the Ford metal roof is flopping around.  Kermit's fix is simple and easy.  He said they screw in a self tapping 3" long screw into the floor of each glass door side cabinet to draw the metal roof upward to secure it.

This weekend I'll be following Kermit's advice and see what I find and resolve.  Hopefully my issues are minor with fast easy fixes.  If not, I'll either dig deeper myself or I may give in and drive over to the factory for the day.  I'll report back as to my findings.

I've spoken to Kermit but just a few times via phone and really enjoy talking "PCs" with him.  I greatly appreciate his interest in my troubles and his desire to resolve them for me.  My rig is six years old yet I am treated like a new-bee owner.

1429  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: 2551 and 2552 in Houston, Texas on: September 13, 2013, 10:34:55 am
shows a 2552 with captains chair in place of the euro chair
Our 2007 PC 2350 came with a barrel chair.  A few years later I replaced it with a 3rd captain seat.  I got the idea from a forum member.  Was that Bob M?.  It reuses the pedistal, a project that took but a few minutes to swap seats.  We love it.  Like you say, a 3rd passenger can ride in comfort.  When I want to relax or watch TV, I favor quickly adjusting the seat close to the dinette and use the dinette seat there as my ottoman, over the later picture just for quick convenience.  We use the large area under the captain seat for all our shoes and more....great storage under it because of that pedistal....lot's of usable floor space for stuff that naturally gets hidden by the seat skirt.

ADDING:  This picture shows the chair Fully adjusted against the wall which is still comfortable sitting upright.  To recline we adjust forward away from the wall toward the dinette which allows the backrest to recline nicely.



1430  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Inductive stovetop anyone? on: September 13, 2013, 10:27:15 am
It seems that stove top would solve the problem with our conventional stove.  My wife melts the control knobs and panel decal.  She can't seem to remember to place the big square griddle only on the large burner.  Placed on the small burner the pan over-hangs the knobs and then heats them along with the decal to distortion.

I need to buy two new knobs and decal.
1431  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A New Banging Sound After Year #6 - Dead Center In The Headliner Area on: September 12, 2013, 06:21:52 pm
Thanks Bob for reporting in with that data.  I think it is best I go "deep" regardless of where the noise is coming from.  I'll plan on adding many more and better fasteners as perviously covered.

If only I could work 40 hour weeks to have the time to get into it.
1432  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself! on: September 12, 2013, 06:13:52 pm
the later year Fords do now come with heavier suspension components which means steering stabilizer and shocks may be OK as-is.  (See Fords website on E-350/450).
We own a 2007 E350, the last year before Ford's suspension improvements of current day.  When the change was introduced, I studied the suspension and brake specs to better understand what I missed out on.  I hope I have this accurate as it has been years since I reviewed the technical differences.  Use this just to get the idea.

Today's E350/E450 suspension was introduced in 2008, easily identified by the restyling of the front grill to what I call the industrial dump truck look.  2008 was a transition year in that it got the latest suspension and grill, but has the earlier oval/roundy dash board design.  2009 is the first full year of change and as far as I know, is the same for 2013.

There were 3 main areas of change.
1) styling
2) suspension
3) brakes

1) styling
- The front grill allows for more air to flow through the engine compartment
- The dash board added a glove box and accomodates an optional navigation system.
- The general layout is improved addressing issues such as the 12v outlets placed away from the gear shift selector
- The two entry doors got 2-tier storage pockets

2) suspension
- The E350 gets a rear stabilizer bar (all E350s from 2007 on back never got one)
- Both E350 & E450 get a better mounted front stabilizer bar
- Front suspension improved through minor adjustments of the upper & lower control arms
- Both E350 & E450 chassis weight ratings were increased though I can't recall what exactly changed to make it happen

3) brakes
This one has been debatable as to whether they were improved or simply cost reduced
- Rotors got a bit bigger in diameter with bigger matching brake pads
- Caliper piston diameters are a bit bigger
- The rotors are separate parts, not part of the hub like before.  Real heavy duty trucks with disk brakes have the hub and rotor as one cast part for best performance
- The E450 lost the industrial parking brake assembly just behind the transmission, I assume it now is like the E350 with the parking brake by the rear wheels.

My appologies in advance if I got some of this wrong, but I don't have time to refresh my memory to supply most accurate data.
1433  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Which model is best for us? on: September 11, 2013, 03:54:29 pm
Ron why do you say this?
"We own a 2007 2350 purchased new back then.  No doubt, the tight bathroom and rear corner double bed are confining.  It does seem that many people find them tolerable until after they explore a larger model like the 2552.  I can understand the 2350 would be especially an issue for people with limited mobility."

What mobility issues? Some of us just don't like climbing over each other to get up in the middle of the night. Or in my case my wife does not like closed spaces. We both gave up our teddy bears many years ago and don't feel the need to "have to always sleep together in the same bed".
 Smile
Tom, some people are up in the years with hip and/or knee replacements, athritic issues, overweight challenges, etc,  all that could easily translate into "limited mobility" when crawling in and out from a 2350 bed.  I didn't mean to imply that everyone who has switched from a 2350, has mobility issues.  Sorry if it came out like that.

Oh, and by the way, I sleep against the bathroom wall, Irene against the outside wall.  When either of us get up during the night, we both get up.  We learned early on not to try climbing over eachother.  The inconvenience is a small price to pay for the "Teddy Bear" benefit.  I guess we never grew up. Smile
1434  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Which model is best for us? on: September 11, 2013, 12:39:03 pm
We own a 2007 2350 purchased new back then.  No doubt, the tight bathroom and rear corner double bed are confining.  It does seem that many people find them tollerable until after they explore a larger model like the 2552.  I can understand the 2350 would be especially an issue for people with limited mobility.

We hope never to replace our 2350.  We owned our first motor home for 24 years.  We hope to own this one longer yet, until our driving years have ended.  We learned much from our first motor home.  The 2350 was our "replacement" choice for the following reasons.

Priority #1 - It must fit inside our garage as did our first rig.  The 2350 just makes it.

Other priorities included....
- A good funtional daytime & nighttime floor plan without a slide out
- A full size dinette
- A double bed on main floor (we must sleep together)
- No conversion features (the bed and dinette stay that way all the time)
- A dry bathroom (no toilet in the shower)
- A decent size fridge

The rest that came with our PC was all great bonus stuff.  If ordering a new PC today, I would change my order only very little.  One thing I would greatly miss if getting a new 2350, is our older design outdoor storage compartment.  It is so much bigger than the 2350 of today.  I think PC-USA moved the fresh water tank forward and turned it 90 degrees to place that weight more centered and over the rear axle to improve handling.  They also relocated the furnace under the bed.

I would greatly miss our massive outdoor storage compartment of which we do fully utilize storing stuff we really do use.  Ours is so big, I can get inside it, and maybe even adding my wife.  That would make for a funny picture.  I did need to invest in some suspension upgrades to address handling issues, but all has been well since.  If ordering a new 2350, I'd request they make it like my old 2350 or a compromise of some sort to regain as much outdoor storage as possible.

We just wrapped up a 30 day trip in our 2350.  It was a real champ meeting every need without a complaint over it's accomodations & features.  Of the 30 days away, we had shore power only two nights, and never water or sewer hook-ups.  Not having a tow vehicle this trip helped because we drove the PC almost daily.  That maintained the twin coach batteries effectively.  PCs in general are great for primitive camping as long as you are wise with utility usage.
1435  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A New Banging Sound After Year #6 - Dead Center In The Headliner Area on: September 09, 2013, 06:41:35 pm
I feel very comfortable dropping the headliner as long as I can leave the rearward end of it attached.  I hope to drop the front and I might be able to swing it around 180 degrees rearward to expose the original sheet metal and all.  I'll have Irene drive while I look, listen, and feel around.  And yes I will be careful with that jagged sheet metal.
1436  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: First Impressions 2552 on: September 09, 2013, 05:23:05 pm
I will try too on a few questions.

- Map lights are controlled by the switches there along with the headlight dash panel dimming switch "clicked" all the way to one end.  Both need to be swtiched "on" for the map lights to work.  When done, be sure to click off the dimmer or the outside step lights stay on for far too long
- Yes if running the a/c & water heater, you should not run another high amperage thingy like a toaster.  It happened to us last month making coffee, heating water, and running he heat strip in the a/c unit.  I forget that every year, once at the beginning of the trip.  The genset safety switch got tripped.
- It sounds like your suspension needs a good wheel alignment, but not 100% sure about that.  Are you sure your tires are not overinflated?  That might also contribute.
- 9.5 mpg sounds right for an E450-2552.  PCs on an E350 generally will get 1 more mpg and we averaged 10.6 with our E350-2350 last trip over the 5500 miles driven.  This for two reasons.  The E350 has a more fuel efficient axle ratio, and the smaller PCs that get an E350 simply weigh less.  The E450 axle ratio is for more pulling power.
- We carry a rubber-back corn broom-like throw rug that I place outside on the ground.  It cleans our shoes very nicely.  The second line of defense is a rug on the electric step.  The 3rd is a cut-to-fit runner carpet on the first step inside.  By the time we step on the main floor, most dirt is off our shoes.  Still dirt accumulates so every now and then I hand sweep everything out the door with an effective yet small hand brush.  We have two boot trays by the door under the 3rd seat where our shoes, that easy to find hand brush, and hiking poles are stored.
- Like Judi, when we cook, down comes the smoke detector.
- Our older 2007 2350 has a huge outside storage compartment.  Bundles of firewood, 4 pkgs of Lynx Levelers, portable grill, outdoor chairs, and so much more all store in there.  I have to be careful not to over-weigh the rig with what I put under the rear corner double bed.  I can understand your need for a hitch rack.  I personally would consider an enclosed one.
1437  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A New Banging Sound After Year #6 - Dead Center In The Headliner Area on: September 09, 2013, 03:37:55 pm
I understand now and know what to look for.  If that's all it is, maybe I can wedge in an old rubber computer mouse pad, keeping it in place with carpet tape in there and be done with it.  Thanks a bunch ragoodsp!
1438  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A New Banging Sound After Year #6 - Dead Center In The Headliner Area on: September 09, 2013, 11:51:46 am
Way back i posted in regards to my ex-2551 having a very large rattle right over the drivers seat and when I took the headliner down I found a 2 inch wide strip about 18" long  of roof cut away steel that was attached on one end that was dangling enough that over a rough bump it would hit hard on what was left of the cut away roof below.  It was metal on metal and made a racket.  Perhaps over time you have something similar and and it is just now starting to hit what is below?
Thanks for sharing that.  I'll be on the look-out.

Nearly every B+/C motor home manufacture cuts the roof of the chassis, either for easier access in a C or opening up the interior in a B+.  I always considered that risky but it is so commonly practiced.

For reference, here is a picture taken in the PC factory.  I pulled it from the 2007 slideshow presentation on PC assembly.  I don't see how metal-to-metal could be banging unless the factory added some metal.


Yesterday was my first chance in doing something after our trip, so I washed the exterior and cleaned out my waste plumbing.  It took all day.  I just couldn't work inside until the 20,000 bugs and crud was gone.  If I get into that B+ gasket, I want it to be clean.

Anyone yet perform that test in driving their rig and feel for gasket-to-roof movement?
1439  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Crease in front cap? on: September 08, 2013, 08:22:45 pm
I have that too from day one.
1440  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A New Banging Sound After Year #6 - Dead Center In The Headliner Area on: September 08, 2013, 10:10:51 am
I'll do what is needed to get our rig right.  I am known to be quite handy so I am comfortable digging into my bang or creak or whatever it is.  I've learned over the years that anything that will require my time to this capacity, some amount of over-kill in the repair process is most often the better choice.

We got back from our 4 week trip last Monday on Labor Day.  The following day I started 12 hour work days, 6 days a week again.  Our PC is outside getting cleaned by God and his creation.  Live bugs are eating the collection of smashed ones.  I do hope to clean the rig today and maybe have some time to dig into the banging/creaking.  Who knows, I might get lucky and identify the culprit right away when pulling down the headliner.  I'll keep you updated with pictures where applicable.

I really hope to hear from you all in regards to the movement while driving, felt between the B+ cap gasket and Ford roof.  It would help to know up front if I have a normal or abnormal situation there.  The movement we have is felt both on the driver and passenger side so if we have a condition, it is uniform in that way.
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