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1531  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 23, 2012, 08:35:50 pm
1) You said, "...the barrel chair pivots and moves forward and backward.  It can be positioned to utilize the dining table without too much of a reach." -- How is this possible?  That chair is secured to the floor, right?

2) You said, "...it might be worth considering the "UN-Documented" option of getting the single bed located over the front cab." -- I'm assuming that this is not possible with the Sprinter chassis, correct?  

3) Gradygal said, "The 2551 has twin beds-GREAT-and a lower tv. And a terribly hard ride." -- Why the extra-hard ride?  Is the E-450 suspension that much stiffer?  (PS: I really like the two captain's chairs and table idea).

4)  if we could get the 'undocumented' single bunk over the cab with a Sprinter chassis.  The bunk would replace the lost sleeping area, but we would (as you said) be giving up storage space.  That might be a worthwhile trade-off though.
1) Our 3rd captain seat is bolted to the floor.  It has an adjustment to pull forward, regardless of the direction it faces.  So if you face the table with the seat, pull forward to the table.  You cannot eat at our dinette, but you can easily place things there while "lap" eating.

2) The undocumented over-the-cab bed would be for a small child, maybe two if they get along.  I don't think it could accomodate an adult.  And you are correct in assuming the Sprinter's head clearence would be very confining.

3) Understand the E450 is used on the largest of class-C motor homes.  So for a lighter weighted smaller 2551, there is excessive CCC margin, so the ride would naturally be rougher due to the stiffness of the suspension.  Did you ever drive a box truck, empty, and full?  Empty is jarring, full is a cushy ride.  The same principle here.

4) The undocumented over-cab bed would offer a massive open storage area, so much more than usual because the chassis roof would not be cut away.  You get a very strong front cab for roll-over protection, but give up the easy pass-thru and also give up the place to mount a TV.  The over-all interior would surely feel more confining.
I wonder if someone ever requested that front area to be full size (no pass-thru cutout) enclosed with cabinet doors.  That would make a huge enclosed storage area.
1532  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 22, 2012, 11:36:48 pm
Sherman,

It is absolutely impossible to place the size dinette I have in the slide-out of "Any" 2350 (and many other models) Ford or Sprinter.  The slide-out wall thickness & interior trim (both sides) of the slide-out eats up many inches of linear wall.  Also the transition/angled wall directly behind the driver cannot get utilized.  Slide-outs of every kind cannot utilize that angled wall.

The older models with smaller slide-out, the fridge is stationary.  My dinette butts right up against the fridge and on the opposite end, it utilizes half of the angled wall.  With slide-outs, that angled wall space is sometimes utilized with creative cabinetry.

The newer models with larger slide-out, the fridge is inside the slide-out, therefore gets shifted maybe 4 to 5 inches toward the driver which yields the same losses in wall space.

Study the floor plans of the 2350 with and without a slide- out.  Note how the no-slide dinette utilizes the angled wall, but the slide-out couch cannot.  This is how and why my dinette is bigger than it could be in any slide-out.

It might be more clear if you closely study the pictures of my dinette directly behind the driver HERE.  It is hard to see the wall behind the driver is angled, but it is angled all the way to the dinette window.  The backrest cushion there is smaller than the cushion on the other side.  A very small sacrifice for a nice size dinette.
1533  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 22, 2012, 03:00:17 pm
Sherman,

I emailed you the pdf of the 2009 brochure in 3 separate sections.  You can reassemble it back into one brochure on your computer.

It s an 11 page brochure.  For some reason pages 10 and 11 are massively MB'd compared to pages 1 thru 9.  I tried to reduce them, but did not have any luck yet.

To the general community, if you want a copy of the 2007, 2009, or 2011 brochures in pdf, give me your email through my profile and I'll email them to you as well.
1534  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 21, 2012, 08:43:22 pm
Sherman, I emailed you a TON of data, what I have on some previous PC model years, and Chassis years as well.

51MB in all.  I hope your email server can handle it.  Let me know if you get 7 emails from me.  The first email of the 2007 PC brochure by itself can be deleted.  I later saw I had all 6 sheets in one PDF file so I resent it along with the 2011 brochure.

Oh boy, the 2009 Brochure just bouced back because it is 16.4MB, more than I am allowed to send from here.  Compressed, it is still too big.  Sorry about that.

So you should get 5 good emails with 44MB of chassis and PC data.
1535  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 20, 2012, 11:30:15 pm
Sherman,

How far are you from the town of Mendon, MA?  I ask because there is a former Phoenix USA dealer there that has a 2007 2350 and a 2008 2400 that you could size up.  I think both have slideouts.  Both were never titled and may still carry some sort of new warranties.  They might be considered demonstrators.  Click Here To Get To His Website.  Then Click On Inventory  We special ordered our 2350 from him in 2007.  Don Keller the one and only owner/employee is a great guy to talk with.  He might be over 80 years old and has strong morals, very good ethics.  He might give you a great deal on one of his 2 PCs.  I would not look at his advertised prices.  Just pay a visit and see if either fit you two perfectly.  If you are seriously interested, then try and work a deal with Don.  If you can't agree on a price, then you at least are better educated with PCs in general, and very much educated on those two specific models.

Your visit there could help you in making a decision on what to order direct from the factory, or maybe even drop the PC line altogether.
1536  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 19, 2012, 12:48:54 pm
Aimee, how do we navigate to the tour page?  It would be ideal if there was a dedicated blue button on the left-hand side with the others.
1537  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 19, 2012, 09:51:54 am
Something else that would be very helpful would be an archive section that has brochures with features, specs, options, etc for previous model years.  Very few mfrs seem to do this either (WGO is one that does).
I ask Aimee that question once every few years.

I have PDFs of 4 model years...2007, 2009, 2011, 2012
1538  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 19, 2012, 09:39:26 am
Keep in-mind the 2350 dimensions I am providing are from my 2007 model year.

Dinette
Bed dimensions:  71W x 36D (71W is with cushions removed, finished board to finished board)
Table dimensions: 29W x 34D
Leg room: 29.5W
Overall dimension of dinette: 73.5W x 37D
I am 5'-11" so it was a surprise to me to see the width matched my height.  The few times I slept on the dinette when sick, I guess I never slept like a soldier laying at attention.  It seemed to be plenty wide for me.

Shower
Just above the shower pan: 34W x 23D
Max to skylight dome: 73H
Keep in mind, the shower narrows as it gets higher due to the curved exterior wall.  The roof is crowned, so the shower ceiling is vaulted.  Looking at my shower, if PC-USA installed the plumbing on the opposite "outside" wall, there would be much more room to take a shower.  But that would put the plumbing in a sealed vacu-bonded wall, not a hollow interior wall.  If I were to order a new PC just for me, I would still inquire about doing that, and discuss any repercusions of it.  You might end up with a raised wall panel/channel for the two pipes to pass through.  I can see why they did it the way it is, given the plumbing is done before the exterior walls are installed.  But it would have been nice.
1539  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 18, 2012, 03:21:35 pm
Our first motor home Here was a one piece like Coach House, but much simpler and used low grade finish materials.  Brand new it cost us $12,225 in 1983.  Strangely enough, I still dealt with a little water getting inside.  Most got in from the dual hindging rear wall & door, some from around the marker lights and some around the windows.  The one piece shell suffered from a few stress cracks, but never was structural nor involved concern for water.

Very few 2350s with a fixed dinette (no-slide) exist.  Nearly all have a sofa in a slideout as it is quite the popular choice.
My wife and I have to be the odd-balls in our thinking.  You should see our regular house.  We designed a one-of-a-kind.

The relative height of the TV is notably higher in a Sprinter than in either Ford given the driver's cab ceiling height is significant higher.  PC-USA compensates by using a taller B+ cap on the Ford, and a low profile version on the Sprinter.  Of coarse, the cabinets on each side of the TV are smaller.  I personally don't see any of this being significant.  Just noting the minor differences for the discussion.  Some would say the improved head room the Sprinter's front cab is better at opening it up for living room space.







1540  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 17, 2012, 10:24:01 am
...any idea why it is not available at the PC website?
I would assume because it is outdated.
1541  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 16, 2012, 10:18:16 pm
One thing I'd really like to see is the PC "virtual construction tour" mentioned in the PC brochure.  I've checked the PC website but didn't see anything like that.  If you or someone else could give me a link I'd really appreciate it.
The original virtual tour is a many slide PowerPoint presentation with sound narration that runs around 14.5 minutes.
I got a fairly clean copy of it over 4 years ago but can't share it due to it's 72MB size.
You can watch a technically ill (poor sound and smaller pictures) copy of it on Youtube HERE
Understand that the presentation was made to demonstrate the 2008 model year so there are some superficial differences between 2008 and 2012.
1542  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Sorry on: March 16, 2012, 04:11:48 pm
Same here.  I have to get better at marking helpful things with my appreciation.
1543  Main Forum / Photos / Re: Scenic Pictures With Our 2007 2350 on: March 15, 2012, 10:36:03 am
---and then you'll want/desire/need/must have that pc for yourself, and wind up owning it.
That is a concern of mine.  But our garage has a length limit of exactly 25'-0" so anything longer and I'll be storing it off-site.......sort of a built-in safe guard.

BTW: Thanks lmichael for the compliments.
It's not a fancy camera either, just an 8MP 12X Canon Powershot S5 IS that we paid $150 which included a printer.....a "previous model liquidation sale" at the time.
It's all about the moment, backdrop, lighting, angle, and always the distance.  Get far away and let the zoom do a nice job.  The closer you get, the more "fish-eye" your subject becomes.
1544  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: High sided on: March 14, 2012, 12:21:04 pm
In regards to "Level", it is a technical concern when the rig is being driven, not when parked.  So you want to be examining a "Lean" when the slideout is retracted.

A lean can easily be introduced or removed depending on how much fresh water or sewage is in the tanks.  A full 38-46 gallon PC fresh water tank (compared to empty) can add well over 300 pounds, half the weight of a slide out.  And the fresh tank is most often place against a side wall.  The larger waste tank holds 35 gallons and I recall it most often favors the driver/rear.

I would examine a rig as it would be driven with the slide out pulled in, waste tanks dumped, and fresh tank filled, just as most people do when moving on to their next destination.
1545  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used. on: March 14, 2012, 01:15:59 am
I'm torn about the ladder -- you and Gradygal both make good points.  Offhand I'd say that if the main reason you leave it off is cosmetic.
The clean appearence is secondary.  We plan to own our rig for a very long time, 25-30 years, maybe longer.  When I examine older motor homes, that stuff becomes questionable whether it can be trusted.  Rusting screws, heavily oxidized aluminum parts and related hardware along with dried-up caulk is concerning both on the rear wall and roof where water penetration becomes a concern.  I feel the fewer holes in my roof and wall, the better.  Admittedly I have much larger holes like for the a/c, skylight and roof vents and such, but the roof rack, ladder and Winegard antenna are easy for me to delete.  And for some reason, old screws are a common source of water infiltration.

As mentioned by Gradygal, there will be a time where I'll wish I had the ladder on-the-spot......especially if my rig gets tangled up in branches or something.  But I will take my chances.  Hey, I still have my ladder & rack.  I can still mount them if I change my mind.  If I ever do, I would likely install just the ladder.

Every now and then someone donates an old motor home to the charity I volunteer at.  Those with ladders demonstrates to me I made a wise decision.
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