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31  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 08, 2016, 09:38:40 pm

Here is a picture of our hot water control panel on our 2007 2350.  Does yours look the same?  If not, maybe you have a propane-only model.  I think a third model was offered where the tank water gets heated up from the main Ford V10 engine, I assume hot anti-freeze piping meanders around inside, heating the water that way, though I am not certain of it.

The left side lightening bolt symbol is the switch for 110V electric.  The right side flame symbol is for propane operation.  It is conceivable that we could run off both electric and propane at the same time for a faster heat-up.
32  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: A couple of hot water heater questions on: April 08, 2016, 08:52:03 pm
We own the same model year as you.  My quick answer is...

1) I don't know if there is a way to adjust the temperature.....I wonder too.  Something tells me we might be able to control it behind the wooden panel inside the rig, but it's been too long since I was behind it.

2) Once I hear the flame, the igniter stops clicking.

This is a dumb comment but I need to say it anyway because I was the dummy.  It is easy to forget the tank was drained during preparation for storage.  It is especially concerning when plugged in during storage.  Be certain the HW switch under the kitchen counter is turned off when plugged in during storage, and the tank is filled with water before firing it up using either electric or gas.  There is 1/2 gallon of water in the tank after being drained as a safeguard, but it's not fail-safe.

I know all this because around 2009, I believe I burned up my 110V heating element this way.  When replacing the 110V element, with the tank drained, I removed the element and out came about 1/2 gallon of more water.  I asked the maker of the HW heater and they explained it to me, the 1/2 gallon is to protect the element when one forgets.  They also said it was okay to freeze which was another surprise.
33  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Which Trip Planning software for 2016? on: April 08, 2016, 10:32:09 am
Yes, all the gadgets are fine, but always have a Rand McNally as a back-up when service goes down.  We get into trouble once in a while relying solely electronic.

But the big USA Rand McNally has let us down too.  It does not cover the area north of San Francisco.  I picked up THESE MAPS when visiting the area, kept them clean, scanned them at home, and made them available to the general public......and for us too when out there.

I also recall a disappointment using the Rand McNally a long time ago when travelling through Death Valley, but I don't remember what the trouble was.
34  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Phoenix After Sales Support on: April 08, 2016, 10:25:29 am
Joe R,

I agree with 2 frazzled.  I would call the main number at 574-266-2020, get a quote, and setup a visit.

I would sell you my brand new 9 year old roof rack and ladder (never installed) for mine just take up space in my basement.  But then you will need to install them yourself.  I think you will do so much better buying the rack & ladder from the factory and have them install everything properly for you.  The factory will charge a reasonable price and do the job properly.
35  Main Forum / Adventure Anywhere / Re: Utah - Zion and Bryce Canyon on: April 07, 2016, 04:06:43 pm

If you are returning to Arches in the fall check into the "Fiery Furnace Tour".  This is a Ranger led tour that you book on  They call it difficult but we did not find it difficult at all.  If you have the Senior National Park pass it is only $8.  Your go into parts of the park that are not opened for public hiking.  Excellent tour but you must book ahead of time. Aside from our hike to the water falls of the Grand Canyon, this is our second favorite.
I agree with Barry-Sue.  The ranger-led hike through the Firey Furnace is awesome.  The reason why it is otherwise closed is because people had died getting lost inside it, others falling.  The ranger knows his/her way and does everything safe.

Nothing in Arches is disappointing except when the campground is full.  I didn't recommend the camp ground only because it is deep into the park, not as good of a base camp for Canyonlands, but great when visiting Arches alone.  If you love RV camping with hookups, there are plenty inside Moab.  We liked the Grandstaff BLM campground to save big on campground fees.  It might also be called Negro Bill camp ground because it is adjacent to the Negro Bill Canyon Trail head to Morning Glory Arch.  Not quite certain of the name.  It is adjacent to the road so you do hear cars & trucks go by, but the view is awesome.  The night river cruise is also a sight to see because they light up the canyon with the boat and also a truck on the road equipped with flood lights.
36  Main Forum / Around the Campfire / Re: Our Sparky's last trip on: April 07, 2016, 10:45:20 am
Bruce & Sharon,

We have not had a loving pet in many years.  But the two we did have, a cat for 18 years, and later a little Parakeet for 6, when the cat past away and the Parakeet flew away, we surely felt the loss.  Each of them were such a joy to have in our lives.  Strange how a Parakeet could bond so tightly with us.

I am sorry to read of your loss and hope you will find a new furry friend one day soon to fill your hearts with that kind of joy again.

37  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Phoenix After Sales Support on: April 07, 2016, 10:20:05 am
Oh yes, most certainly, Phoenix is one great company to buy a rig from.

The reason why motor homes in-general require so much fixin all the time is because they are houses dealing with massive earthquaking all the time.  It's hard to keep it all together.  Phoenix units stays together better than the typical but I don't believe there is a rig out there that can withstand the punishment completely unless the chassis has a puffy-soft air-ride suspension, and the owner puts very few miles on it.

As strange as it sounds, the way to soften the ride of your PC to keep it together best is to load each axle to capacity, and set the air in the tires to that load.  Or.....take it to a specialty shop and have them install a full air ride suspension at a whopping price tag.  They replace the rear leaf springs with something completely different.  And that is something I would not do with our PC.

It is always good practice to go around and tighten all the screws just before or after a long trip.  I find that the face of our microwave oven loosens up most.  Once it's tight again, lots of rattling noises go away.

I suggest to buy a nice dedicated square head screwdriver at any home improvement center and keep it in your RV tool box so it is always with you.

I am curious....What do the rest of you need to tighten back up most often?
38  Main Forum / Adventure Anywhere / Re: Utah - Zion and Bryce Canyon on: April 07, 2016, 10:03:31 am
Nice....thanks Ron!  Got me thinking of the autumn return trip to catch Canyonlands and Arches!

   -  Mike

Yes, you will not regret it.  They are two of my most favorite.....Jeeping in Canyonlands and the entire "Arches" experience.  The fall is a good time to see them.
39  Main Forum / Adventure Anywhere / Re: Utah - Zion and Bryce Canyon on: April 06, 2016, 01:55:21 pm
You are taking on my most favorite places.  I cannot comment in-detail for my reply would turn into a book.  I will try to keep it to the point.

I know you said "aside from hiking" but I can't help myself......for the hiker.

- Hike up to observation point, a full day hike with views no better elsewhere in the park
- If hot, hike the narrows.  This is a hike in the river
- Take full advantage of the buses inside the park
- We camped on the west side near that town and like it for the convenience and atmosphere, especially camping next to the river.

- It's not a huge park.  BE SURE to hike the loop trail inside the canyon.  If you don't hike down inside it, you've missed the best the park offers.  We camped in the park by the park entrance.  Nothing special, but very convenient.

Cedar Breaks
- We just looked from above.  Very pretty.

- A DO NOT MISS, rent a jeep for a day from Frabees in Moab at the far end of town.  Do NOT rent from anyone else because Farabees have new Wranglers at about the same rate as everyone else who rent old Wranglers who require you return the vehicle clean and then they inspect it and test drive it.  Not so with Farabees.  They all give you a decent map to take the following trail.  Drive into Canyonlands entering through Potash, then Dead Horse Point, at the end you exit out the miners trail, see Musselman Arch and views are unbelievable throughout.  Don't chicken out....walk across Musselman arch.  DO NOT miss the turn-out going down to the Colorado river.  It has "extreme" yet safe jeeping in one spot which the rented Wrangler handles well.  You will absolutely love it.  No worries about gassing up the Wrangler.  Start out the day with a full tank and return with a half tank.
If you have time on your return trip after getting up from the miners road, be sure to drive through that other canyon, It has the word  "RED" in the name if I remember right.  It has it's own "Don't Miss" features.

- We camped outside of Moab in a BLM campground along highway 128 across from the trail head to Morning Glory Arch.  The campground is called Grandstaff.  It is a great base camp to visit Moab, Arches, & Canyonlands.
- A small park.  My favorite of all places anywhere in the USA.  I just love the park so I will advise to take every trail.
- If limited in time, then visit the Windows section and take the one extended hike to Delicate Arch.  There are many arches with short 1/4 mile or less walks, very easy for non-hikers.
- If you are a decent hiker, most definitely hike the entire loop trial to Black Angel and see so many beautiful Arches all day long.  Landscape Arch is on that trail.  It is the longest span arch in the world.  You can hike to Landscape & back the same way to cut the hike short.
- The drive to the Tower Arch trail head vibrates the vehicle badly.  A motor home can easily drive it but the vibration makes you crazy.  I love that Arch with a moderate hike to it.  Keep in mind that I love every arch.
Every arch you see, get into it to experience it's majesty.
- We did hike to Morning Glory Arch, the 3rd largest.  We underestimated the length of that hike and did not bring enough water.

Where you are visiting, bring more water on your hikes than you think you will need.  Even in spring time, you'll need more than expected.  If you brought too much, you can always water a desert plant with some of it.

South, southwest Utah is my most favorite all time region to travel to.  If you have even more time and a 4x4, there are the Escalante Hoodos and Narrows, the road to the dock to Rainbow Bridge, I could keep on going here, but will stop now.  You got me wanting to go back again.  It's been too long.
40  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Looking to purchase an 2006 or a newer 2551 on: April 06, 2016, 01:04:04 pm
I have a soft copy of the 2009 brochure.  Every 2009 model (not just the 2551), the couch is all by itself in the slide out.

I think you are right Waterdog.  If my memory is good, the 2010 was the first year of the current-day slide out which has the fridge included.  Unfortunately I do not have a 2010 brochure.  Phoenix did not publish a brochure for every model year.

To make the "moving fridge" work, the furnace was relocated in some models over to the passenger side.  I know the 2350 has the furnace under the bed since, which reduces the size of the under-bed outside storage compartment, and the loss of one kitchen drawer to accommodate a heat register.  As is always the case, there are pros and cons to every deviation.

I have soft copy brochures for 2007, 2009, 2012, and 2015 model years, in PDF fashion.  If anyone wants one of them, just email me your request.  My email address is in my profile.

41  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Looking to purchase an 2006 or a newer 2551 on: April 03, 2016, 01:16:33 pm

I surely understand your feelings.  But it is not fishy when you understand what happened in the RV industry in those days.  Sales died during the 2008 recession.  RV companies went out of business with virgin 2008 chassis of all makes & models at a nation-wide surplus.  Determined survivors like Phoenix bought them at auction for cheap and passed down the discounts to consumers to encourage sales.  Still by 2010, a few 2008 chassis did not get consumed.  So, I would think you could negotiate a little better price with all that considered.

Keep in mind that even in better times, you will often see the chassis a year behind the year of the motor home.  This is because RV manufactures release their new model year many months before the new chassis year is available.  So you will see the earliest 2016 PCs being built on a 2015 Ford or Mercedes chassis.  And in some cases, a surplus of a particular chassis with a particular wheel base, you might find a 2014 chassis holding up a 2016 PC.  And this is not Phoenix alone.  Every manufacture of motor homes have the same practices.

As is often stated on various RV worries over mismatched motor home/chassis years.  Also reiterating what I mentioned in an earlier post that every 2008 Ford chassis has the older dash board.  The new dash board was introduced in 2009.  It's not fishy at all, after-all.
42  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Factory Visit and Stabilizer Question on: April 02, 2016, 04:56:44 pm
Hi fandj,

Our 2007 2350 on a 2007 E350 chassis has a Safe-T-Plus which is now 9 years old with 30,000 miles of use and all continues to be fine with it.  It was one of many upgrades done on the original suspension with less than 1000 miles when the rig was almost new.  Because the changes were made in one visit to a shop, I cannot say what each upgrade did on it's own.  I can say that everything works together like a beautiful symphony.

It is hard to describe what the Safe-T-Plus itself is doing on it's own.  Trying to describe it, it seems to provide additional resistance in the steering wheel, but only when going straight to help you stay straight....yet it's more than that.  Maybe one of the other Safe-T-Plus owners will take a stab at describing it.

One thing certain, the Safe-T-Plus is expensive.  No getting around that.
43  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Looking to purchase an 2006 or a newer 2551 on: April 02, 2016, 02:07:12 pm
What we really like about the newer style is the design of the vents.  When they are closed you do not feel anything from them, in our 2008 we could never completely close them off.  We always felt air getting passed the closed vent.
My wife Irene can relate to this.  She complains I like it a little cooler than she does and cannot completely close the vents on her side.
44  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Looking to purchase an 2006 or a newer 2551 on: April 01, 2016, 08:33:50 pm
 Why would the Dashboard matter ?
There is also a 12 volt outlet in the glove box in addition to the 2 outlets in the dash.

Corrected to coincide with Barry-Sue's 12V correction Smile
45  Main Forum / General Discussion / Re: Looking to purchase an 2006 or a newer 2551 on: April 01, 2016, 05:36:02 pm
Why would the Dashboard matter ?
The current-day 2009-2016 dash board design offers a glove box (none in older), two levels of door pockets (one in older) two center console storage compartments (one in older) and the two 12V outlets are located in a better place, out of the way of the driver gear shift lever.....adding Barry-Sue input below...also has a 3rd 12V outlet inside the glove box for hidden charging.

Here are the two at a glance.  It matters more to some people than to others.  Some people actually appreciate the older design for it feels more like a car.  The newer design has more of a "commercial" look & feel to it, and it sits a little taller than the older design as noted looking at the windshield wipers.

I personally prefer function over feel, but my wife thinks the other way around.  I have a hard time changing our incandescent light bulbs in the house to LEDs because they don't dim to a soft yellow glow.  They instead dim to a white glow.  Sheesh!  Gotta love her.

2008 and older design

2009 and newer design
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