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 11 
 on: December 14, 2017, 06:53:24 am 
Started by fandj - Last post by Volkemon


A 50 amp receptacle on a pedestal is 220 (240) volts.  Just like the wiring coming into your house... Two separate 120v circuits but they are 180 degrees out of phase so between the 2 circuits you get 240 volts.   Each one has a 50a breaker and they are tied together so if either line exceeds 50a, both sides will open (via the breaker).

That has not been my experience. When one leg of a 220V service is used as a 110V source, only that 1/2 of the breaker trips. The bar between the two legs on the breaker many times allows one leg to trip and not the other. 

However, the adapter I showed separates those 2 sides into a 30a socket and a 15 (20) amp socket.  Correct, there are no breakers in that adapter, but your 30a shoreline DOES have a 30a breaker for the shoreline.  One would presume that if you are going to put a 20 amp shoreline hookup in the fiberglass, you'd also put a 15 or 20a breaker between it and the receptacle where you'd plug in the heater.

Correct, but the wiring between the pedestal and the coach breaker box are rated for 30A and 15A. The only protection between the post and the breaker box in the coach comes from the breakers in the pedestal. So should a short appear between the pedestal and the coach, say in your shore power connector, the pedestal breakers will trip. 
With the adapter, the 'proper' 30A and 15A shore power connector cables/wiring are now not protected by the proper size breaker. The circuits in the coach 'downstream' of the coaches breaker box are indeed protected. The shore power cables outside, and the wiring inside the coach from the shore power receptacle and into the breaker box are now not protected properly.


That ONE receptacle would ONLY be hot when you ran the 2nd shoreline.   Without that 2nd shoreline plugged in, the receptacle would not be powered.

Agreed 100%

Using the adapter will guarantee that the 30a and 15a lines don't come off a single 30a breaker.

Also true, but it having both on one 30A breaker will err on the side of safety. The 30A service between the pedestal and the coach breaker box will be properly protected, the 15A will be 'underprotected' because it will need to draw 30A + to trip the breaker if no power is being used from the 30A outlet. Both cables are limited to 3600W total power (at 120V).
With the adapter in a 50A outlet, the 30A side and/or the 15A side will need to draw 50A+ to trip the pedestal breaker. 6000W per cable (50A x 120V) or 12,000W total for both cables at 120V. Over three times the energy available to heat things up. 


I have seen many RV park pedestals where there is only a 30a and 50a breaker but 3 receptacles.. 50a, 30a and 15a.

I have gotten a few stares over this week hopping out of my VW Bus to inspect pedestals around here. After looking at ~15 or so, I also have noticed the 30A always has a 30A breaker, maybe 1/2 have the 20A breaker (I assume) feeds the 20A GFCI in the pedestal. The others just have a GFCI outlet protected by the 30A breaker. The 50A always have a 220V 50A breaker.
I know from residential wiring that things are NOT always wired 'to code'. Thats why I preface things with 'properly wired' if stating an example case.





It is indeed a luxury to be able to discuss and find potential problems like this here at the desk, rather than finding them while camping. Thank You! 

I am starting to understand why I see so many references to 'illegal' adapters on RV forums.  Having a 15A cord with the breaker built into the male end seems like a VERY good purchase. Like one of these, but maybe with a cord longer than 6 foot.  https://www.amazon.com/Power-All-Extension-Moisture-Resistant/dp/B00CJI9XMC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_86_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NK50FNRSGP69SKPFYD49

I am not finding any 30A 110V cords with this same feature. If they are out there, I can see the same value in them.

Maybe there is a 'correct' adapter that takes the 50A 220V service, slits it to (2) separate 110V services, and adds breakers and female plugs. If I wasnt expected to be working, I would keep searching....  LOL   Thanks again!

 12 
 on: December 14, 2017, 02:03:06 am 
Started by ron.dittmer - Last post by ron.dittmer
Good for you Denny.  I am glad it worked out for you two as it did for us.

It's nice to know a fellow PC owner has applied one of my ideas into their RV lives.  Thanks for sharing that.

 13 
 on: December 13, 2017, 09:45:19 pm 
Started by ron.dittmer - Last post by Denny & Barb
Ron, Just finished converting all of my fixtures. Thankyou for your engineering skills and putting together this info.
I couldn't find the leds or switches as they were off the market by now.
But found what appeared to be similar.
I did maybe almost 4 different configurations. All dependent on its location.
Example... Bathroom I wanted lots of lighting for the MRS's and a possible night light.
Well, the nite light (one string set, of 3 led's) is certainly too much for a night light. So will cut some resistors to fix that.
I did wire each fixture, so it could be reverse engineered. (although, this will not happen as far as I can see)

End result... Yes, as you mentioned, a softer, less obtrusive lighting. And.... cannot forget Dry-Camping batteries will love them.

Thanks
Denny

 14 
 on: December 13, 2017, 07:20:56 pm 
Started by fandj - Last post by donc13
There is ONLY one way to do it safely... A 50 amp plug to 30a AND 15a adapter.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MRN4C73/ref=asc_df_B01MRN4C735299883/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B01MRN4C73&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198064502357&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5556998667899434989&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028903&hvtargid=pla-348585281213


Which means you MUST select a spot with a 50a receptacle.

Your other option... Turn off the heater before you use the microwave.

The question posed by the OP was how to install the service connection in/on his RV. We have turned it into a discussion of electrical supply..  LOL  BUt indeed informational!

I am unclear as to how using the 30A and 15A outlets in a properly wired pedestal would be dangerous. Even if they were supplied off the same leg, each outlet has its own local breaker, and the 15A is required to have its own GFCI. A short circuit or overload condition on either outlet is protected by the correctly sized breaker in the pedestal.

The adapter you link to has no circuit breaker protection for the 30A or the 15A outlets. Each of these outlets would be protected by one leg of the 50A breaker in the pedestal. So now there is a 30A service protected by a 50A breaker, and a 15A service protected by another 50A breaker. This appears to be the most dangerous solution so far.  sad   I welcome correction on this. Please.

Found a free online link to the 2011 NEC , and been studying section 551 which covers RV services.  It has helped a lot, as I have little (ok...NO  rolling on the floor ) experience wiring up RV park pedestals.

One piece of info I have yet to find is current required to melt a wire...
IE: I take a 14/3 cord, and wire nut the hot and neutral together.  Embarrassed    IF I run it on a 30A breaker, does it trip the breaker before the wire glows red hot and/or melts the copper? 50A breaker?

Some destructive testing might be in order. I have to imagine someone else has had to try this already... just cant find it.



A 50 amp receptacle on a pedestal is 220 (240) volts.  Just like the wiring coming into your house... Two separate 120v circuits but they are 180 degrees out of phase so between the 2 circuits you get 240 volts.   Each one has a 50a breaker and they are tied together so if either line exceeds 50a, both sides will open (via the breaker).

However, the adapter I showed separates those 2 sides into a 30a socket and a 15 (20) amp socket.  Correct, there are no breakers in that adapter, but your 30a shoreline DOES have a 30a breaker for the shoreline.  One would presume that if you are going to put a 20 amp shoreline hookup in the fiberglass, you'd also put a 15 or 20a breaker between it and the receptacle where you'd plug in the heater.

That ONE receptacle would ONLY be hot when you ran the 2nd shoreline.   Without that 2nd shoreline plugged in, the receptacle would not be powered.

Using the adapter will guarantee that the 30a and 15a lines don't come off a single 30a breaker.

I have seen many RV park pedestals where there is only a 30a and 50a breaker but 3 receptacles.. 50a, 30a and 15a.

See attached pdf

 15 
 on: December 13, 2017, 12:28:22 pm 
Started by fandj - Last post by Volkemon
There is ONLY one way to do it safely... A 50 amp plug to 30a AND 15a adapter.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MRN4C73/ref=asc_df_B01MRN4C735299883/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B01MRN4C73&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198064502357&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5556998667899434989&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028903&hvtargid=pla-348585281213


Which means you MUST select a spot with a 50a receptacle.

Your other option... Turn off the heater before you use the microwave.

The question posed by the OP was how to install the service connection in/on his RV. We have turned it into a discussion of electrical supply..  LOL  BUt indeed informational!

I am unclear as to how using the 30A and 15A outlets in a properly wired pedestal would be dangerous. Even if they were supplied off the same leg, each outlet has its own local breaker, and the 15A is required to have its own GFCI. A short circuit or overload condition on either outlet is protected by the correctly sized breaker in the pedestal.

The adapter you link to has no circuit breaker protection for the 30A or the 15A outlets. Each of these outlets would be protected by one leg of the 50A breaker in the pedestal. So now there is a 30A service protected by a 50A breaker, and a 15A service protected by another 50A breaker. This appears to be the most dangerous solution so far.  sad   I welcome correction on this. Please.

Found a free online link to the 2011 NEC , and been studying section 551 which covers RV services.  It has helped a lot, as I have little (ok...NO  rolling on the floor ) experience wiring up RV park pedestals.

One piece of info I have yet to find is current required to melt a wire...
IE: I take a 14/3 cord, and wire nut the hot and neutral together.  Embarrassed    IF I run it on a 30A breaker, does it trip the breaker before the wire glows red hot and/or melts the copper? 50A breaker?

Some destructive testing might be in order. I have to imagine someone else has had to try this already... just cant find it.


 16 
 on: December 13, 2017, 10:43:42 am 
Started by fandj - Last post by Joseph
If your going to place a ground fault recepticle you have the issue someone mentioned of concerns of if something shorted such as your heater. Also I have yet to see a ped that the adjacent 15 amp 110 outlet wasnt on its own breaker.

I have considered doing exactly what you are looking at and rather than drilling thru fiberglass I have considered having the connection just under fiberglass by adding a bracket to hold it there, much like your receptacle for your toad wiring in the rear. I would place it either near the battery box which might be a pain due to having to having to throw your cord under the rv at every hook up due to the ped being on the other side. If I do this I will place the ground fault on the cabinet near/under the sink as it allows easy access under neath. The issue here if you place the male exterior recepticle on the side of the ped is running your wiring to the passenger side before entering.  So once I get around to it if I can find a good way to run the supply wire from the ped side to the passenger side of the rig that will be my first choice. If not Ill deal with throwing the cord under or dragging along a long enough cord to go around the rig to the ped.

 17 
 on: December 12, 2017, 04:54:09 pm 
Started by jfcaramagno - Last post by donc13
Does anyone know the manufacturer of the Euro chair? I need to order a new part.

Pauk's in Elkhart

http://paulsseating.net

 18 
 on: December 12, 2017, 04:41:02 pm 
Started by fandj - Last post by donc13
There is ONLY one way to do it safely... A 50 amp plug to 30a AND 15a adapter.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MRN4C73/ref=asc_df_B01MRN4C735299883/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B01MRN4C73&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198064502357&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5556998667899434989&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028903&hvtargid=pla-348585281213

Which means you MUST select a spot with a 50a receptacle.

Your other option... Turn off the heater before you use the microwave.

 19 
 on: December 10, 2017, 09:19:55 am 
Started by Volkemon - Last post by Volkemon
ANOTHER water leak found. This one from the outside shower unit.  In the inside picture, note the reflection in 'Lake Commode'  of the drain pipe. The line of drips across the bottom of the outside shower unit made it an easy diagnosis.  Looking at the  outside picture you can see it pulled away from the wall a slight bit... that soaked the shelf in the bathroom.  The shelf is dished from previous water leaks there, guess I overlooked that on inspection.
Boy oh boy, the surprises keep coming.  I feel for you.  Hopefully you can tackle each issue with successful permanent results.

Well, this leak I really should have forecast.. the shelf is warped, I can see the gap outside on the panel..  Embarrassed So it really sorta funny. Little stress.

 It is dry season here... soon. (We did get 2 3/4 inches measured fri-sat however) I will be sealing up. And taking pictures. We have a festival in 2+ weeks.

Its messy stuff, but I am thinking of using 'urethane sealant for this. Any thoughts on what I should re-seat/reseal things with?

 20 
 on: December 10, 2017, 09:12:15 am 
Started by Volkemon - Last post by Volkemon
The front Ford stabilizer bar end bushings (also called grommets) is what wears and does so very quickly.  The steel stabilizer bar itself is severely under-rated for the full load of a motor home, rendering it nearly ineffective.  Add the end rubber grommet wear and it's a decoration.

Making this clear for the other readers here....If you have a 2008 Ford chassis or newer, you have a better front stabilizer bar design direct from Ford.  Your bar is still under-rated for the load of a motor home, but your end links are not rubber grommets and don't have the quick-wear issue.

I certainly admire your perseverance in concerns about the swaybar.  We are not currently operating the coach at anywhere near max GVWR. Guessing 500# cargo, 1/2 full freshwater, empty waste tanks. Full propane.
We did ~150 miles last night going to a show and back. Left late, realized we forgot a major food item  sad, then left even later after returning home to get it.... we are now in a hurry driving a motorhome.  rolling on the floor

Very pleasant experience.  Grin Grin The handing of that coach is excellent. We kept 80-85 MPH down most of the interstate hwy travel. I followed whoever was going faster than us. Little bit of high speed tire imbalance, but nothing objectionable considering. VERY gusty winds coming from '2 O'clock' and '5 O'clock'. I was very happy with the handling, and the MOST important judge, Mrs V, was very comfortable.  ThumbsUp went back to the kitchen to portion out desserts we were giving away later. She had no idea we were not doing 65.

For ~20 miles down US1, it was 3 lane jam packed traffic, close quarters, and 45-60 mph. Mrs V commented a few times about how happy she was that I was driving.. I think she was expecting us to 'kiss mirrors' a few times with other trucks. I have a lot of seat time in box trucks, 15-25 foot, and some in dump trucks, so I am pretty comfortable driving this coach. With wind, traffic and our speed, again I was pleased with the handling.

Parked in a small office lot, amazing a few onlookers as I slid in with the coach.  Grin I love that short wheelbase. My buddies F350 is 23' 'bumper to ball hitch' but wont go near where this baby slides in. My habit of using ALL the steering available also gave me an airbag code 34, prolly the clockspring.  Not surprising. Troubleshoot it later.

In 3 weekswe have our first festival, going for 5 days/4 nights. We will be a bit heavier in the coach, and probably with a light trailer.  (under 2K# gross) I will see what difference that makes im my opinion.   nod   But for now, I am very pleased with the handling the coach is giving me in its present form.


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