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Author Topic: Such A Deal?  (Read 1930 times)
DownBy TheRiver
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« on: December 12, 2009, 07:09:59 pm »

I have a local dealer that is selling a new leftover 2006 PC2400.  Cant figure out why its still a leftover, other than hes a small concern with a slow turnover, and got caught with it in the downturn.  While built on the 2006 E350 chassis, it would seem he took delivery of it in the first quarter of 2007.  This would indicate its been sitting for 2.5 years.  Dont have the absolute particulars on this unit, as Id rather know everything I can before subjecting myself to a salescreature.

Original list was $88,000+, now priced at $54,000.

1) Sound like a good deal?

As far as the chassis goes, my concerns are:

2) Will Fords chassis warranty still start at the time of my delivery?

3) Anyone know if the 2006 chassis included the 5-speed TorqShift tranny?

4) What concerns should I have regarding a new chassis unused and sitting for so long?

Im trying to get an idea if such a situation will result in a trouble-free purchase.  I can foresee some necessary service and/or possibly necessary part replacements due to component age/unit inactivity.  If not a lost cause, just trying to figure out what expenses or problems I may be faced with to inform my decision on purchase price vs true overall cost.

Thank you for any help you can provide on these issues.
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NC Sailors
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 10:46:42 am »

We found a similar deal on a similar 2551 Ford gas unit in NC. The price was right but I wanted a diesel chassis and a diesel generator. Therefore, we went and got a 2010 2350S from the factory.

If you can get a discount price that works for you on the 2007, you should require that the dealer change the engine oil and brake fluid. That maintenance is probably required every 2 years regardless of how many miles are on it. In addition, tires are only good for six years. So depending on when Ford built the chassis, you may have 3 to 3.5 or fewer years left on the tires. Although unused, the chassis and coach batteries will also have aged somewhat in the 2.5 years.

You can decode the VIN to figure out when Ford built the chassis. In addition, the tires have the year and week of manufacture molded into the sidewall.
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Richard2
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 11:06:18 am »

Hello, I just purchased a used 2005 PC 2100.  It was not purchased by the orgiinal owner until August 2007.  Once I got the motorhome to my place of residence, I checked with Ford and they said the warranty was good, bumper to bumper for the Ford portion, until August 2010.  So it depends when the unit is actually sold.  I have been looking for a motorhome for over a year, so I have asked people all kinds of questions, one,is there harmful effects of a rig not being driven and just sitting.  As far as the mechanical side, everyone I spoke with, said that there is no harmful effects to the motor, etc.  One thing I missed when I looked at mine prior to purchasing, was the roof.  I'm in contact with the factory and it may not be an issue at all, but I've noticed several areas where the fiberglass exterior was not attached to the substrate under it.  Tires could degrade from the sun, depending on where the unit was stored.  Good luck. 
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DownBy TheRiver
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 03:13:24 pm »

Thank you so much for the responses and discussion thus far, I appreciate the help as well as the enthusiasm you all project for the PC.

Via email, captgw2 said:

>>>>  It appears you DO get the 5 speed transmission with that model year. I have one in my 2010 2350 and it IS a wonderful tranny!

Agreed, based on everything that Ive read.  Thanks for the 2006 brochure link, and while not specific to the cab chassis, it seems incontrovertible that it was matched with both the 6.8 V10, as well as for the 6.0 V8 diesel, without any other choice or option.  Once I see it, I know Ill see the Haul/Tow switch on the shift lever, but wouldnt even consider looking at it in the first place if it was not so equipped.  Except in the very earliest years on the 6.8, this powertrain combo seems to be well sorted out in terms of owner satisfaction and reliability.

>>>>  As for $54k, that seems like a pretty good price. Just as long as you are not having to dump another $1k plus into replacing dry rotted tires and treating the underbody rust.

Well, it is what it is.  Knowing what I need to look out for and budget for is all part of the equation, as long as its priced accordingly to allow for those needs that need to be met.

>>>>  You may want to call the factory and speak with Stuart or Kermit about the warranty. They are usually familiar with where their "children" are and the sales status.

If I get that far on this unit, I would definitely call Kermit.  From what Ive been reading here and elsewhere, I have no doubt he would consider this to be one of his children!  He can probably specifically remember it rolling past him and out the door.  LOL!

>>>>  For the record, I saw two leftovers that just werent very good. I ended up getting a 2350 from the factory EXACTLY the way I wanted it at a helluva price.

Dont doubt it for a minute.  However, even with expected outlays on possible repairs and/or upgrades, I think Im still ahead by $20 K or so, and I do have a budget.  It also probably reflects closely to what Id want in a 2400.  If chosing new, Id go with the gray scheme, and perhaps even the E450 chassis, yet this is full body (and interior) in blue, my favorite color.  While I think the cherry looks rich and expensive, it has maple, which really does brighten things up quite a bit, and unlikely to be an option Id be willing to spend on anyway.  Fabric seating and slide-out couch as Id want it, although without the thermopane windows or rear monitor camera, things Id likely order new.  Only reticent on the windows, as full timing for a while is contemplated.
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DownBy TheRiver
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 04:28:25 pm »

Again, thank you!

NC Sailors said:

>>>>  We found a similar deal on a similar 2551 Ford gas unit in NC. The price was right but I wanted a diesel chassis and a diesel generator. Therefore, we went and got a 2010 2350S from the factory.

I get what youre saying, NC I appreciate better hardware over frou-frou.  However, Ive made my peace with gassers, at least in this particular instance of opportunity, although my initial love affair was with the Sprinter chassis.  I too, see the wisdom of fueling the genny with chassis fuel (the smartest choice IMHO), whereas the general inclination by dealers is to stock Sprinter units of other coach manufacturers whose gennys are fueled by propane.  If by luck, or by order, such a chassis is available in pure diesel, youre still confronted by the 25 gallon tank vs. the 55 gallon tank on the Ford, although auxiliary tanks (non-NHTSA-spec) are available at a price.  I anticipate a lot of the great beyond for my own needs.

On the other hand, if choosing diesel, the Sprinter is the very best choice, if for any reason, cab noise levels.  Being well acquainted with the Sprinter van (as well as Ford and Chevy diesels) as used in the expedited freight industry, the superior overall refinement and noise levels of the Sprinter chassis is absolutely indisputable, and overall operational economy is always worth considering.  While Mercedes gasser (if still available) saves about $6 K at MSRP, you give up 16 MPG, vs. 12 MPG, as well as all the necessary torque.  While the Ford diesel would likely produce 14 MPG, its a $10K MSRP premium over the 6.8, which still provides comparable torque (albeit at higher revs), and can deliver 12MPG as long as Im judicious with cruising speed, tire inflation, and dont mind the resultant rattling cupboards.  Testimonials regarding the cost to tow reasonably sized toads with either chassis appear to be 1 MPG.

  In the current opportunity presented, I cannot foresee paying of that $10K Ford premium over the life of my coach ownership, although as priced in the Sprinter, could be worth the argument.  Thus the only other remaining concern I have with the Sprinter is simply the remaining available load capacity re: GVWR.

>>>>  you should require that the dealer change the engine oil and brake fluid.    tires are only good for six years.  the chassis and coach batteries will also have aged somewhat in the 2.5 years.

DOH!  Thanks!  Forgot brakes, but yes, figured on only another 2-3 years for tires.  As for batteries, still havent found a sealed battery that lasted more than 4 years yet, so I expect to replace the chassis battery.  As for the house batteries, I have no previous experience, although in the old days had always been able to nurse serviceable batteries out to 6 years in my cars although I dont trust the dealer to have serviced them adequately.

Whatever maintenance or repairs I might consider, I would rather discount the necessary service in the purchase price, and rely on my own funds and supervision to make sure its done right to my own requirements.  Trust, but verify, eh?
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DownBy TheRiver
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 05:06:56 pm »


Richard2 said:

>>>>  Hello, I just purchased a used 2005 PC 2100. It was not purchased by the original owner until August 2007. Once I got the motorhome to my place of residence, I checked with Ford and they said the warranty was good, bumper to bumper for the Ford portion, until August 2010. So it depends when the unit is actually sold.

Thanks.  Your response is what I had anticipated, however, its good to hear real-world fact in that regard.

Love that 2100 for all the obvious reasons, and would ordinarily consider one for myself, except for the fact that anyone kind would consider me to be husky, or worse yet for the blunt, portly.  LOL!  Comparing the scaled floorplans, much less the bath photos of units out there, the 2400 would appear to provide the necessary, ummm, clearance in order for me to go about my, err, ummm, business.  In recognition of the possibility of extended full timing, the additional wardrobe as well as the added pantry/storage cabinet will likely be extremely useful for me.

>>>>  everyone I spoke with, said that there is no harmful effect to the motor, etc (for an unused unit).

Good to know, and disregarding the other coach accouterments, I now wonder about any such effect on the Onan generator in this regard.  Anyone?

>>>>  One thing I missed when I looked at mine prior to purchasing, was the roof.

Ive read your posting elsewhere on this issue, and thanks so much for your generous spirit in bringing this to my attention!  I might not have considered this issue to be part of my anticipated inspection regime on the unit available had you not brought up the subject.  While bereft of practical experience in this regard, all my armchair research would indicate that as long as this flaw isnt allowing water into the coach or the body sandwich, the worst consequence would be that of a visual flaw, thankfully up high and out of sight. 

While in the ol armchair here, I recall reading a second-hand (or long term) owners testimonial somewhere out there on the net regarding a persistent water leak.  He enlisted Kermits help in this matter, and stated that they literally tore off the rear coach wall assembly, fixed the issue, and then sent him on his way at little or no cost, paraphrasing a quote from Kermit as, this should not be happening.

Granted, such service should be considered within the terms of whats reasonable financially, and it would appear from your posts that you are a realistic and reasonable gentleman based on your stated expectations of what is possible.  However, that post alone clued me in to not only a superior product, but also a worthy and deserving manufacturer and principal as well.
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NC Sailors
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 08:26:53 pm »

Many good thoughts here in this thread notably about gas or diesel. I am not necessarily rational here; I have a deep emotional attachment to diesels. I was a ship engineer for many classics: a pair of 1939 Nordbergs (TSM219s), some GM12-278As, many GM671s, and other odd old ones. To me, diesels are the heartbeat of the mother in the womb of the ship.
We picked a diesel-diesel for the chassis-generator combination because of the single fuel. We wanted a single stop to fuel both; as opposed to tanking up on motor fuel then looking for a propane station. We considered the 55 vs. 25-gallon tank capacities of the Ford vs. Sprinter. Fifty-five gallons at 10.5 mpg gives you a whopping 578 miles. On the other hand, 25 gallons at 15 mpg yields only 375-mile range or about two-thirds as much. For us it boils down to planning stops. Diesel fuel is not very flammable so you can carry a 6 gallon Gerry can as a spare for longer range or dry camping with relative safety.
Batteries. To preclude a call from the first mate about the car will not start; I try to remember to replace batteries after no more than four years, its cheap insurance.
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DownBy TheRiver
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2009, 05:23:41 pm »

NC Sailors -

LOL!  You are both accurate and generous in summing up your estimation of gas vs. diesel as being potentially an irrational or emotional decision.  Any fair review of various truck-only or RV websites hosting similar arguments would inform one of the emotional aspects of this argument regardless of hard numbers, whatever the particular situation being advanced.  Pay Now vs. Pay Later comes to mind and my personal Conservatism would tell me to Pay Now in support of a choice of diesel.

You said, To me, diesels are the heartbeat of the mother in the womb of the ship.  Poetic and succinct.  Besides your being particularly well suited to appreciate diesel power, as well as being well versed in the care and feeding of such a powerplants, such emotion speaks to the similarity of situation in that of a new master of a kitten or puppy, wherein one adds a hot water bottle and a ticking alarm clock to its bed, comforting the animal with the simulated warmth and heartbeat of the missing mother.  As Sigmund would say, Tell me about your mother.  LOL!  Certainly, with your background, you rest easy at night!

But it goes beyond that being a car freak, I am continually frustrated by our domestic auto industry vs. that of Europes, particularly in regard to their turbo diesel offerings in a given chassis.  Power is either similar or superior to a gasser, not to mention the operational economy.

In the case of your Sprinter PC, regarding your chassis choice, you probably made the very best diesel choice and shrewd purchase at this particular time.  You lucked out in that Phoenix made available a chassis that they themselves were apparently able to purchase at a greatly discounted wholesale price.  The chassis itself also provides superior noise levels and chassis refinement when compared to a Ford Powerstroke offering.  You also have superior passenger comfort and space.

Additionally, we know that new clean diesel regs will soon saddle the newest Sprinter chassis with an additional urea tank and other equipment to attain EPA standards, whose additional storage volume, weight and additional service requirements and expense you will be free of.  I dont know what Fords plans for diesel chassis are in this regard, but certainly their solutions will be no more elegant than those offered by Mercedes.
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