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Author Topic: Swap single pane windows for dual pane?  (Read 862 times)
Shipper
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« on: March 29, 2013, 08:12:26 pm »

Anyone had the factory change out the windows? Any problems? Would you do it again? Thanks for any replies!  Help
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 09:13:10 pm »

It sounds expensive to do.

I can say we have dual panes glass and glad we have them, Real noticable improvement for thermal properties and also much more quiet when sleeping in Walmarts, truck stops, and rest areas.  Even more quiet when on the open road.  This comparing to our old rig, not to a single pane PC.
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, 12:23:25 am »

Hi Shipper,

I asked Kermit, at the PC factory, whether we could make that switch
for our 2350S unit.  He said that the actual window sizes were too different,
so we couldn't switch from the single-pane windows we have to doubles.
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2013, 09:39:52 am »

He said that the actual window sizes were too different, so we couldn't switch from the single-pane windows we have to doubles.
If  your plan is to swap out the glass alone, I would agree because the dual pain is much thicker.  It won't fit in the tracks of the single pain.

I assumed the project also replaced the frames which is why I mentioned high cost.  I would ask Kermit if the frames are interchangable.  If so, for cost sake, maybe replace only the windows having the greatest impact, the big ones next to where you sit and sleep.

I am referencing the earlier slide-open windows, not the current day pop-open flush mount.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 09:56:14 am by ron.dittmer » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2013, 01:14:07 pm »

Skipper, your profile says "No" under own PC. If you are still in the ordering stage of before of a new unit, you can option in the dual pane windows vs the single pane windows. If it is already built, you will have to listen to Kermit and go with which ever is already installed.
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ragoodsp
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 02:19:31 pm »

On my 2551 i had the factory swap out the single pain for doubles because I had doubles in my other coaches, I guess it was somewhat more quite on the road but I did not notice a huge difference and between the dollar uptick of $1000 and the weight of close to 200 lbs I  decided to not have them installed on my new 3100.  In the 2551 I had the old style sliders and I must say the factory did a great job swapping them out, the entire window frame had to be replaced to handle the increased size of the glass and there was not a single scratch either inside or out.  I love the new frameless windows that look superb and makes the coach a little more secure.  Thanks, Ron 
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Shipper
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 08:13:09 am »

.... and the weight of close to 200 lbs I  decided to not have them installed on my new 3100.  In the 2551 I had the old style sliders and I must say the factory did a great job swapping them out, the entire window frame had to be replaced to handle the increased size of the glass and there was not a single scratch either inside or out.  I love the new frameless windows that look superb and makes the coach a little more secure.  Thanks, Ron

The 3100 is already built and my main concern about changing them out was scratches so glad to hear they did a good job. I hadn't thought about the 200 # as I'm stepping down from a RV with over 8000 # CCC; but, with as little outside storage as they have, I probably can't load it down. Have you weighed your 3100 yet? I hope to have about 2000 # CCC. Thanks for your replies!
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ragoodsp
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 09:27:36 am »

Shipper:

My 3100 fully loaded with fluids and two adults and 80 lb dog tipped the scales at 13,600 lbs, 4460 on the front axile and 9140 on the rear, I did not get individual corners done.  That leaves me with approx. 900 lbs of extra stuff.
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2013, 10:03:19 am »

I am quite surprised to read that there is a 200 pound differnece between single and dual pane glass.  I suppose it also depends on the PC model.  The larger the model, the more glass there is.
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Shipper
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2013, 10:37:47 am »

Shipper:

My 3100 fully loaded with fluids and two adults and 80 lb dog tipped the scales at 13,600 lbs, 4460 on the front axile and 9140 on the rear, I did not get individual corners done.  That leaves me with approx. 900 lbs of extra stuff.

Ron, Is that "fully loaded" just your wet weight or does it include some or all of your stuff? Do you have 50 amp service? I guess we will need to load heavier items toward the front axle.
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frecklestweety
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2013, 11:17:09 am »

I was going to inquire how you could insulate my 2010,2551 as the inside the cabinetry needs insulation from the heat and cold weather.  Would it be good to use carpet against the inside walls.  This coach sure isn't insulated as well as my last coach which was a gulf stream yellowstone.  My only savior in keeping the coach warm was a small electric heater and running the furnace once and awhile.  Im not sure I would go to the expense of double pane windows even though that sounds like a remedy.
  really appreciate everyones input. Smile
     
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ragoodsp
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 02:06:43 pm »

Shipper:

The 13,600 lb GVW was the coach completely loaded with all the gear and food  I would need for a week on the road plus myself and my wife and dog.  The holding tanks were empty.  I was  looking for a little more capacity but 900 lbs is not bad compared to say a Sprinter that is about max before you load anything.  I do not know exactly what the weight of the dual pain windows might be but the 3100 does have a fair number of windows and glass is not light so it would have to be at least 100 lbs that takes fuel to move down the orad.   Enjoy the 3100!
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Shipper
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 02:53:39 pm »

Shipper:

The 13,600 lb GVW was the coach completely loaded with all the gear and food  I would need for a week on the road plus myself and my wife and dog.  The holding tanks were empty.  I was  looking for a little more capacity but 900 lbs is not bad compared to say a Sprinter that is about max before you load anything.  I do not know exactly what the weight of the dual pain windows might be but the 3100 does have a fair number of windows and glass is not light so it would have to be at least 100 lbs that takes fuel to move down the orad.   Enjoy the 3100!

Your dog weighs 60 # more than mine so I'll throw that into the windows. DW and I weigh about 350 # so I don't know it that's a give or a take?  Grin
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bobander
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 03:43:33 pm »

Shipper:

My 3100 fully loaded with fluids and two adults and 80 lb dog tipped the scales at 13,600 lbs, 4460 on the front axile and 9140 on the rear, I did not get individual corners done.  That leaves me with approx. 900 lbs of extra stuff.
Shipper:

The 13,600 lb GVW was the coach completely loaded with all the gear and food  I would need for a week on the road plus myself and my wife and dog.  The holding tanks were empty.  I was  looking for a little more capacity but 900 lbs is not bad compared to say a Sprinter that is about max before you load anything.  I do not know exactly what the weight of the dual pain windows might be but the 3100 does have a fair number of windows and glass is not light so it would have to be at least 100 lbs that takes fuel to move down the orad.   Enjoy the 3100!

Ragoodsp,

The weight distribution on your 3100 looks pretty good and falls in line with the Ford Bulletin Q-18 R5 "Gudelines for Modifying Ford Light Truck Wheelbases".  An excerpt from that bulletin:

II. COMPLETED VEHICLE WEIGHT ANALYSIS
Ford requires a weight analysis to be performed on the complete vehicle. Some considerations
for such analysis are as follows:
The Maximum Vehicle Loading should include the Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW), 150 pounds
for each passenger in all designated seating positions and sufficient payload capacity for reasonable
assumptions of cargo and trailer tongue weight. The maximum vehicle loading shall not exceed the
OEM chassis Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR), nor the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR),
as identified on the front cover of the "Incomplete Vehicle Manual" (IVM).
Avoid rear frame extensions or vehicle configurations that may allow the customer to distribute the
vehicle load so that significant front unloading can occur. Ford recommends no less than 35 percent
of the total loaded vehicle weight be maintained on the front axle for most vehicles included in this
report. The E-450 should be no less than 32 percent. The F53 with a GVWR of 20,500 pounds or
more should be no less than 34 percent (or 30 percent for any F53 with a tag axle). Inadequate frontend
loading could adversely affect the steering and braking characteristics of the vehicle.
A road test should be conducted on a completed vehicle with a payload representative of the users
likely worst-case application. This test is recommended to qualify the ride and handling
characteristics and support the weight distribution analysis.


For the E-450, the bulletin recommends no less than 32% on the front axle and your front axle is at 32.8% with the front weight 540 below the 5000 limit and the rear weight 360 below the 9500 limit.

My 2551 fully loaded for a trip weighed 4400 front and 8000 rear, 35.5% on the front axle.

Apparently, having less than the recommended weight percentage on the front axle would affect handling.  It is interesting that Ford recommends the E-350 to have no less than 35% on the front axle vs 32% for the E-450.

The Ford bulletin can be found here: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/Q18.pdf

Bob A
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