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Author Topic: At long last - Our PC arrives!  (Read 2068 times)
dickreid1
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2013, 11:52:06 am »

Bob,

You are correct, there are two 50 amp lines... commonly down each side of the coach.  As for being overkill, think about what the 40 footers need and that there is no option between 30 amp service.

Dick
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2013, 01:43:52 pm »

Thanks Bob that makes sence to me now. I hope Mike can check his main breaker to see if it is a 50 amp breaker and let us know.

Holly with all those bungies, you could hook them end to end and hook one end back here in Maryland and the other end to your PC. When you are ready to come back home, just put the PC in netural. Might be a little fast but just think of all the gas you will save.  rolling on the floor
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Tom Hanlon
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2013, 02:36:09 pm »

Bob,

You are correct, there are two 50 amp lines... commonly down each side of the coach.  As for being overkill, think about what the 40 footers need and that there is no option between 30 amp service.

Dick

Dick

I meant overkill for a typical Class C, I edited my post to make clear.

Bob
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2013, 04:06:30 pm »

Holly with all those bungies, you could hook them end to end and hook one end back here in Maryland and the other end to your PC. When you are ready to come back home, just put the PC in netural. Might be a little fast but just think of all the gas you will save.  rolling on the floor

Tom, we could also use the extra bungees as defensive projectiles should there ever be a need to defend our home against critters or ornery humans. They have so many uses. What did we ever do without bungees or the internet?
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John, Holly, Chloe & Snickers (The "nanny' cat)

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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2013, 04:29:10 pm »

I am no electrician  but I do know that 50 amps requires two hot legs, a neutral and a ground for a total of four legs. 30 amp only requires three legs, one hot, a neutral and a ground. I have a 50 amp (four leg) plug on my house and a 30 amp (three leg) plug on the PC. So I have a dog bone that has four legs for the house and three holes for the the PC. Basically it drops one of the the hot legs from the 50 amp. I would have to question if you have 30 or 50 amps in the PC. If you do how does it work?

Good description Tom, I was wondering the same thing.  I suppose the main breaker could be 50 amp instead of 30 amp since the incoming shore cable is rated at 50 amp; then the sub-circuits after the 50 amp main could be the same as on a 30 amp rig but more of them could be on at the same time without blowing the main 50 amp.

This is different from a typical 50 amp Class A rig where as you stated there are two 50 amp hot leads and two 50 amp main breakers which totals 100 amps.  A 30 amp rig has 30 amps total and it appears that this 50 amp PC has 50 amps total, which seems fine for a rig the size of a PC, 100 amps would be overkill for a typical Class C.

Bob


Well, I should have thought about this more before replying.  Earl is correct in that both 30 amp and 50 amp plugs have 3 prongs on the RV end; however, the 50 amp plug has a ground contact on the outside of the barrel that makes a total of 4 contacts- same number as the pedestal end.

So, the question remains, does PC provide two 50 amp main breakers and what do they do with all that power, 100 amps vs 30 amps?  If you had a second roof AC unit then you would need more than 30 amps.

Bob
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:29:13 pm by bobander » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2013, 05:14:15 pm »

Bob,
   This is what I have and have been using for several years now.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/30-amp-rv-female-to-50-amp-125250v-rv-male-pigtail-adapter-with-pull-handles/69614

The 50 amp male plugs into the house or post and the PC provided 30 amp cable plugs into the female end. I have used it when I could not get 30 amp on the post and at home. My house was wired when I had a 50 amp class A motorhome. I am to cheap to pay to downside the set up.
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2013, 07:41:39 pm »

Bob,
   This is what I have and have been using for several years now.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/30-amp-rv-female-to-50-amp-125250v-rv-male-pigtail-adapter-with-pull-handles/69614

The 50 amp male plugs into the house or post and the PC provided 30 amp cable plugs into the female end. I have used it when I could not get 30 amp on the post and at home. My house was wired when I had a 50 amp class A motorhome. I am to cheap to pay to downside the set up.


Tom,

You are right, I forgot about those adapters, I even have one.  The RV has a 30 amp main breaker that protects the 30 amp end of the adapter.  However, if there is a short before the main RV breaker, then the current can go to 50 amps before the pedestal breaker opens, potentially damaging the 30 amp connection of the adapter.

I edited my previous post to remove the statement that 50 amp to 30 amp cables are not available.

I use my adapter when there is only 50 amp provided or the 30 amp receptacle on the pedestal looks suspect - loose, cracked, or burned.  Interesting to note that they make the adapter so that one of the two hot 50 amp prongs is wired to the one hot 30 amp prong on the 30 amp end, so all the power is passing through one of the 50 amp pedestal breakers.

Bob
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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 01:08:57 pm »

I used to use a 50 amp twist lock to a 30 amp male adapter on a previous 5th wheel. Very handy when only 30 amps are available at the pedestal (or at the house):

http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-14381-Pigtail-Adapter-Connector/dp/B002CZ7D60/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1384365545&sr=8-4&keywords=50+amp+to+30+amp+adapter

I still have the adapter if you think you could use it. Just send me a message.

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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2013, 09:08:46 pm »

Holly:  I get it now.....some of ya travel with the ladder up.  Definitely makes sense to bungee it up in that scenario!

Tom/Bob/others:  before I get into how well it's working (50 amp setup), here's the panel schedule info on my 50 amp rig (listed top breaker to bottom breaker obviously)

20A Receptacles
20A Converter
20A Microwave
20A Roof Air
20A Inverter

30A Main disconnect
20A Main disconnect

20A Water Heater

Yep, some obvious questions there which I can't answer yet, because I'm still working through a problem with Kermit.  Turns out after spending some time with all the preliminary 'stuff' you do when you first get an RV I found that the microwave and some of the outlets weren't getting power (either on shore power or generator). If the thermostat worked I probably wouldn't have power to the a/c unit either (new thermostat on its way). Will know more tomorrow, but it appears there is a problem with the transfer switch (some call it a changeover switch it I think). So, the answer to the question about the main breaker is that there are two (30 and 20). I'll have to ask Kermit about why those loads are balanced like they are (I'm no electrician). The answer about how well it works will obviously have to wait, but I will certainly post results.  I have spent a good deal of time now in the converter/breaker box (pulling breakers, tightening connections, measuring voltages, testing fuses, deciphering hand written panel schedule and relabeling, etc). But I figure I now know a helluva lot more about an important part of an important system that will be home to us for some lengthy periods of time, so I am gaining some good experience....and truly enjoying it.

Kermit and Earl both apologized for the oversight of not providing the power cord and are reimbursing, btw.

I am confident these issues are fairly easy fixes and Kermit has been super supportive and proactive.  Even with these issues, we are deeply in love with our new rig and very excited. It is roomy, cozy, comfy, beautiful and nicely appointed. It is amazing how many people have commented on it and want to see it up close.

- Mike


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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2013, 04:15:06 pm »

So, for those still interested in the power issue I have and the 50A setup in general here's an interim update.

PC (2552) is in storage a couple miles a way.  Went down early and pulled the particle board bed platform off on the passenger side before I talked to Kermit. 

First some general info.  The platform is screwed to a frame with eight screws. (Note to self: install little hydraulic lifters on this bed, like the drivers side bed) Found that there is a small cutout in the bed platform that gives you access to the furnace without the need to take off the whole platform.  There are some screws visible around this cutout but they do not hold the cutout on the platform.  You can just lift it off.  The screws hold a frame under the platform that holds the cutout piece.  In this bed cabinet are the converter (with breakers and fuses), inverter, furnace (and flexible ducting), water tank, water pump, drain line from the sink (with a clean out connection), assorted wires and water lines.

Also exposed the transfer switch which is located behind the drivers seat, under the generator start switch and inverter display panel, and behind the carpeted panel.  The panel is screwed to the wall with one visible screw and swings out.

Call from Kermit. He remembers that I had them hard-wire a 50 amp SurgeGuard in the PC.  This is when I also remembered that (duh!).  shrug Oh, and this is the first unit that Phoenix has installed a SurgeGuard on. The remote LCD panel for it is mounted right next to the inverter display panel, but the SurgeGuard unit itself is under the drivers side bed in the carpeted 'box' that is elevated off the floor a bit.  He had an appt, so I told him I'd read up on the SurgeGuard and do some investigating.  The SurgeGuard will protect the RV by monitoring power in from both the generator or shore power, and either won't allow power in or will remove power if: Voltage is under 102V, Voltage is over 132V, Reverse Polarity, Open Conductor, Faulty Ground.

Started the generator and waited for the delay period.  SurgeGuard reports low voltage on Line2 (90V).  Line1 was 122V.  Therefore, no coach power.  Since I'm at storage I couldn't test shore power, but I was at a campground with 50A shore power last weekend and the microwave wasn't powered, so at this point I'm thinking it's not both a shore power and generator issue, though it's possible.  Should have at least glanced at the SurgeGuard display while I was at the campground. I thought I'd take a look at the actual SurgeGuard unit and it's wiring under the drivers bed, but couldn't figure out how the box it's install in is secured under the bed.  I'll have to wait to talk to Kermit again.  He offered that I could take this problem to a shop, but I'm learning too much and having too much fun so far.

More to come as I figure this out, unless there are massive protests.  LOL

   -Mike
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2013, 11:45:17 pm »

Mike,
     Hopefully this is some helpful info.  The small cutout on the passenger side bed is to provide access to the water pump which should have a clear vinyl tube attached to the pump.  The cutout is directly above the pump and tubing.  The tubing is to be placed in container of RV antifreeze and then pumped through the system for those that use that type of winterizing.
    I always leave my ladder up and secure it with the double sided velcro that comes in a roll.  I wrap it around at least once and a half.  It must be held tight so there is no chafing of the aluminum tubes.   I have had too many bungee failures and don't trust them.
    Bob
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2013, 12:36:50 am »

Bob: Thanks for that info.  Didn't know that.  My cutout is between the pump and furnace.  In either case, if I had to winterize using that method or access the furnace, I think I'd be happier just lifting the bed if it had the lifters on each side like the drivers side does.  I just need to be sure someone doesn't store anything in there accidentally.

- Mike
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TomHanlon
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2013, 11:15:30 am »

Mike, the hole is also for getting to the fresh water tank drain valve.
 
I had to drill a hole in the side board of the bed to route the water pump bypass hose through to the bottles of pink stuff. The hose was not long enough to go out the original cutout hole and up into the bottles or down to the bottle on the floor. One hole just above the bottle on the floor works for me.
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2013, 08:35:06 pm »

Tom: ahhh....yep looks like it can be used to get at a lot of things right in that area.  I was originally thinking that the cleanout connection that's there on the drain line could most easily be accessed from that cutout.  I know (or I at least doubt) I will need to get under that bed all that much, but considering we plan to have this rig for a long time, I'm definitely going to install the lifters....once and done.

- Mike
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2013, 09:16:11 pm »

Latest update on the no power issue:

We found the problem(s)!  Phoenix didnt install a little jumper wire on the transfer switch that enables the SurgeGuard to operate with both the generator and shore power.  SurgeGuard saw the problem and said nope, no power for you.  I installed the jumper, ran the generator and all was well!  I now have power to all outlets, including microwave.  Yay! 

I didn't have power when hooked up to shore power at the campground because SurgeGuard detected a bad condition (reverse polarity) and again said nope, no power for you (the SurgeGuard unit stores all past faults )

Fairly unlikely to have both generator and shore power conditions at the same time, which made troubleshooting a bit tougher, but after testing both it appears that all is now well......um, except for the problem with the heating and thermostat.  And on that front, I haven't received a new thermostat yet, but further investigation leads me to believe that it was miswired as well.  Everything works well (fan high, fan low, a/c) but if it's turned to gas heat or electric heat, the fuse blows.  A bit difficult to troubleshoot since:  1) the wiring diagram for the furnace has an obvious error in the thermostat section and is missing an important bit of info, 2) the Coleman wiring diagram is doesn't quite describe using this thermostat with a non-heatpump model, and 3) the PC wiring from the back of the thermostat is non standard, undocumented, and there are transitional connections (from PC connections at the thermostat to furnace connections at the furnace) somewhere I can't locate yet.  I'm pretty close, and confident I can locate the problem on Monday after talking to Kermit, Coleman and possibly Atwood.   Least I now gots power! 

- Mike
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