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ron.dittmer
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Helpful Rating: 179
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OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry&Green
ExtColor: FullBody Gray
Location: Dundee, IL
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« Reply #600 on: April 26, 2014, 10:00:22 am »

Hi Carol,

I quickly breezed through all the comments and am not sure what exactly are you ordering.  I know it is the brand new 2450 (extended 2350), but unsure of the following.
Are you ordering a slide out or not?
Are you ordering a dinette or couch?
Are you ordering the pantry to the right of the stove, or getting the optional extended bed?

I think you get a pantry to the right of the fridge with either a couch or dinette when not having a slide out, but only with a couch when getting a slide out.

If you are not getting a slide out as was our decision, I will have numerous inputs to assure you maximize outdoor storage and galley base cabinet storage.  Getting the slide out relocates things that affect those to areas.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 10:04:33 am by ron.dittmer » Logged

Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
Our Rig Is Available For Viewing Any Time Of Year In Dundee, IL
Stored At Home In Our Heated Garage (Well-Lit & Warm Comfort In Winter)
Barry-Sue
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Helpful Rating: 319
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OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: 10/17/11
Model: 2551
ModelYear: 2012
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Cherry
ExtColor: Classic Umber
Location: Michigan
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« Reply #601 on: April 26, 2014, 12:42:07 pm »

Carol

We have not had a problem with the light coming on a lot.  It is nice to walk up to the PC and have the light come on.

The motion light fixture is able to differentiate between a large thermal mass, and a small one (such as a cat, rabbit, small dog, etc.). When a small thermal mass is detected, the light will not be turned on. When a larger mass is detected (i.e. humans, a bear, large dogs, etc.) the light will come on.

I do have a question, "What is worse than a bear?"  The only thing I can come up with is two bears.

Barry
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 01:35:30 pm by Barry-Sue » Logged

Barry and Sue 
Current   2012 2551 w/Slide
Previous 2008 2350 w/Slide
TomHanlon
SuperHero Member
PCPC
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Helpful Rating: 190
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OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: 11/11/11
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2012
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Cherry
ExtColor: full paint Cafe
Location: Maryland
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« Reply #602 on: April 26, 2014, 01:01:33 pm »

Berry a buffalo is worst than two bears. More people get hurt by buffalos then bears.
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Tom Hanlon
Current PC 2012 2552 Full paint Cafe
First PC 2010 2350 Full paint Umbra
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Helpful Rating: 81
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OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: May 2013
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Sunlit & Cherry
ExtColor: Sunlit
Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)
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« Reply #603 on: April 26, 2014, 03:44:56 pm »

Buffalo, bear, couger, cranky camping buddies - doesn't matter. If my light goes on and there is a big critter out there, I may take a picture but I am NOT opening the door. For four legged trespassers, make noise - honk the horn if needed. For two legged friendlies, roll a truck window down just enough to toss out a beer, roll it back up then go back to bed.
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John, Holly, Chloe & Snickers (The "nanny' cat)

Plan at least three years on the road - living, laughing, working and playing in the PC.
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Helpful Rating: 81
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OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: May 2013
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Sunlit & Cherry
ExtColor: Sunlit
Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)
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« Reply #604 on: April 26, 2014, 03:57:27 pm »

Someday Barry WILL install a different faucet for me!!!!

Sue, when they replaced the counter they accidentally swapped the hot and cold water lines on the kitchen faucet. Those lines are attached before the counter is set in. They are extremely difficult to get to once the counter is attached. We watched poor Bobby try to stuff himself under that sink and fold his arms into unnatural angles to reach the attachments. If John ever attempted such a thing I'd have to be far away or there would be no peace between us. I know Barry is way better at such things but it would still be a tough task.
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John, Holly, Chloe & Snickers (The "nanny' cat)

Plan at least three years on the road - living, laughing, working and playing in the PC.
2 Frazzled
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Helpful Rating: 81
________
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: May 2013
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Sunlit & Cherry
ExtColor: Sunlit
Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)
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« Reply #605 on: April 26, 2014, 04:07:40 pm »

I just checked the inventory page and the new units coming off the line have the single spray faucet set on the sink corner between the stove and sink. This means you can get to the connections through the drawer cabinet. I wonder if they changed it after Bobby had to play Houdini for us. I like the new set up, not enough to trade in our baby, but it is nice. You could put water straight into a pan on the stove.
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John, Holly, Chloe & Snickers (The "nanny' cat)

Plan at least three years on the road - living, laughing, working and playing in the PC.
ron.dittmer
SuperHero Member
PCPC
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Helpful Rating: 179
________
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry&Green
ExtColor: FullBody Gray
Location: Dundee, IL
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« Reply #606 on: April 26, 2014, 04:26:04 pm »

I had to dismount then re-mount our kitchen faucet when I accidentally damaged one of the high pressure lines with a saw when rebuilding our base cabinet drawers from 5 to 3.  It was torture.  I told Irene that if she ever wanted a different kitchen faucet, this would be her one and only opportunity to change it.  She liked the original white single handle, so it's back in.

Unlike the bathroom faucet, I was not able to disconnect the plumbing at the kitchen faucet.  Those three hand-tighten features per line, had interferences to other things.   I had to cut the two lines and reconnect using standard house-hold stainless steel braided flexible lines with mating fittings to the white plumbing lines down lower where I could work with them.   It worked out in the end, but it was a lot more work than I thought would be.  I suppose now that it's been converted to flex lines, replacing the faucet will be much easier.
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Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
Our Rig Is Available For Viewing Any Time Of Year In Dundee, IL
Stored At Home In Our Heated Garage (Well-Lit & Warm Comfort In Winter)
Carol
Sr. Member
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Helpful Rating: 3
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OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: July 2014
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2015
Slide: No
IntColor: Greystone with Sterling Leather
ExtColor: Sterling simplified
Location: What day is it?
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« Reply #607 on: April 26, 2014, 07:11:13 pm »

Hmmmm.... worse than a bear....  a moose!  As for what is scarier...  thinking about having to develop a modicum of handiness (or at least understanding) with mechanical, plumbing, electrical schtuff.   Yikes!

Ron, thanks for the response.  I enjoyed the internet pictures of your unit and your many posts and they indeed helped confirm my choices.  I am getting no slide (doggie does not have opposable thumbs so she would be of no use if something got stuck, plus I believe in keeping things simple).  Getting the dinette/convertible to sleeper.  And getting the slide out pantry between the stove and the bed (storage is golden).

Since it has no slide, that means there is some extra room on the dinette side, since the 2450 that PC has on the website has a slide dinette and if you take out those slide walls, there will be some extra space.  I'm hoping they will build me a broom closet between the dinette and the frig--similar to the slide out pantry but no slide out--where I can store long items like a broom, sweeper, maybe a guitar.

Oh, and double wide drawers with no cutting board in the galley, again, inspired by some of Ron's posts I think.

Thanks all!  I'm SO looking forward to talking to Earl on Monday! Grin

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Bruce and Sharon
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Helpful Rating: 39
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NewUsed: New
PurchDate: 8/16/2013
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2014
Slide: Yes
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Location: Summer in Pacific Grove and winter in Palm Desert, California
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« Reply #608 on: April 26, 2014, 08:19:08 pm »

Carol,
We think you should reconsider deleting the cutting board.  We use ours a lot as a counter extension and workspace.
Bruce and Sharon
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Bruce, Sharon, Sparky dog, & Minou kitty
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Helpful Rating: 81
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OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: May 2013
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2013
Slide: Yes
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ExtColor: Sunlit
Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)
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« Reply #609 on: April 26, 2014, 08:46:01 pm »

We also use our cutting board a lot as a counter extender but I doubt she can get it with the double wide drawers. It was an inset to the smaller drawer set.
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John, Holly, Chloe & Snickers (The "nanny' cat)

Plan at least three years on the road - living, laughing, working and playing in the PC.
ron.dittmer
SuperHero Member
PCPC
*******

Helpful Rating: 179
________
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry&Green
ExtColor: FullBody Gray
Location: Dundee, IL
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« Reply #610 on: April 26, 2014, 11:14:53 pm »

...getting no slide
...believe in keeping things simple
...getting dinette/convertible to sleeper
...getting the slide out pantry between the stove and the bed

Since it has no slide, that means there is some extra room on the dinette side, since the 2450 that PC has on the website has a slide dinette and if you take out those slide walls, there will be some extra space.  I'm hoping they will build me a broom closet between the dinette and the frig--similar to the slide out pantry but no slide out--where I can store long items like a broom, sweeper, maybe a guitar.

Oh, and double wide drawers with no cutting board in the galley

Carol,

You and I are on the same page.  I love your thinking.

I think you are right about gaining space on the driver side.  You may get a second pantry-like cabinet or maybe you could opt for a much bigger main closet from your no-side dinette configuration.  Since you will be full timing, I wonder if a bigger closet would be more useful.  You already gain nice size over-the-dinette cabinets, which is a lot more than others get with a slide-out.  If you don't plan to hang much in the closet, you could ask for cubbies in the extra closet space for folded clothes or other supplies.  I bet you would gain more storage that way compared to a separate pantry-like cabinet.

Since you are not getting a slide-out, make sure your furnace will be mounted under the main closet or fridge like mine.  This will open up the storage area under the bed for improved out-door storage.  Make sure Earl understands that it is important to you to have that extra out-door storage.  Outdoor storage always trumps indoor storage because everyone runs short with outdoor storage.

Also, moving the furnace to the other side is "CRITICAL" for the 3 wide-drawer galley system that I made.  When the furnace is under the bed, the heat duct takes up the one drawer position, making it impossible to duplicate what I had done.  Make sure they also add the button latching system I have to keep the drawers closed, for anything less than a solid latch will have your drawers opening while driving.  Pay the extra money for it.  You won't be sorry.  Maybe they can offer a lower-cost alternative latching method compared to what I did, without sacrificing the security.

Be sure to get your dinette with the leather surface memory foam cushions for they will be much more comfortable than the standard cloth covered regular foam.  We had the regular cloth and after some years, switched to the leather with memory foam and it is a huge improvement.  They don't compare.

You mentioned getting the closet instead of the Euro chair.  I don't dispute having an extra closet will be very useful.  But having a 3rd seat instead will quickly become a favorite sitting place for lap time with a small dog, reading, playing guitar, and watching TV.  I think our 3rd captain seat will make for a better choice over the now-standard Euro chair, only because of your no-slide-out situation.  I do wonder that it would not be possible to recline properly with a Euro chair in the restricted space.  With our 3rd captain seat, the front dinette bench is a great ottoman when adjusting the captain seat close to it.  Both my wife and myself love the 3rd captain seat.  We started out with a standard-at-the-time barrel chair there which never got used.  Ask the factory about a 3rd captain seat that is identical to the two front seats.

If you think rotating the front passenger seat will provide the same comfort.....it doesn't compare.  It is close to the passenger door, low to the house floor, and you cannot watch TV from it.  It's much better than nothing and very nice to have when accommodating guests, but I feel the 3rd captain seat is much more comfortable, and always ready to use.  Watching TV when sitting at the dinette works, but you can't kick back.  I think you might miss having a favorite seat.

I understand the thermal windows have not been 100% thermal since the factory changed the window style in recent years.  Those that open, all fixed glass remains single pane because of the outdoor flush-mount styling.  The single pane areas represents the majority of the glass.  Ask about that option, and what exactly can you expect from it.  If you are disappointed, I would consider getting only one thermal pane window, the one in the back wall.  This to eliminate radiated down-draft over your head when you are sleeping in cold weather.  One thermal window would be much cheaper, and maybe is all you really need if the rest of the rig is thermally mixed up anyway.

I think PC-USA will not charge more for most unique requests.  There will be cost associated with the 3 galley drawer system, and a back wall thermal window.  The others may cost you nothing or miniscule.

That's all I have for now.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 11:57:52 pm by ron.dittmer » Logged

Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
Our Rig Is Available For Viewing Any Time Of Year In Dundee, IL
Stored At Home In Our Heated Garage (Well-Lit & Warm Comfort In Winter)
Carol
Sr. Member
****

Helpful Rating: 3
________
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: July 2014
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2015
Slide: No
IntColor: Greystone with Sterling Leather
ExtColor: Sterling simplified
Location: What day is it?
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Posts: 93



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« Reply #611 on: April 26, 2014, 11:33:49 pm »

Wow!
Lots of new things to consider and weigh.
This I do know:  The finished product is likely to have a number of things that I might wish I did differently once I am out there in the wheel world  LOL, but I am amazed and gratified by the volume of thoughtful suggestions and tips from all of you and PC's willingness to work with their customers on an individual basis.  Thank you, everyone!
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TomHanlon
SuperHero Member
PCPC
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Helpful Rating: 190
________
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: 11/11/11
Model: 2552
ModelYear: 2012
Slide: Yes
IntColor: Cherry
ExtColor: full paint Cafe
Location: Maryland
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« Reply #612 on: April 27, 2014, 08:01:54 am »

Slide outs are where Ron and I disagree. Ron likes no slide because he thinks they are a problem and you get more cabinet room for pots and pans over the dinette. I like slide outs because you get more floor space to move around in and you can move the third chair where you want it. More pots and pans or more room for me. I guess I will go with me.  The early slide out back about 15 years ago had problems but todays don't seem to have any problems.

Ask Earl what percentage of the motorhomes come off the line without a slide? How many of those come back for trade in within the first year or so? Talking about trade in, what does not having the slide out do to your resale/trade in value? It sounds like you are taking on a new adventure and might want to change your mind on what you want or need. I would strongly rethink about the side out.
 
Maybe we need a poll on here about who has or does not have a slide out?
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Tom Hanlon
Current PC 2012 2552 Full paint Cafe
First PC 2010 2350 Full paint Umbra
ron.dittmer
SuperHero Member
PCPC
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Helpful Rating: 179
________
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: June 2007
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2007
Slide: No
IntColor: Cherry&Green
ExtColor: FullBody Gray
Location: Dundee, IL
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« Reply #613 on: April 27, 2014, 08:16:08 am »

Tom makes the point that the majority of owners do.  And it is a very good point.  I stand with only a few in our no-slide corner.

There are a few ways of looking at this.  Unlike Irene and me, most people have funds to change rigs as needed or as desired,  Some here bought their first PC after us in 2007 and are now on their 2nd or 3rd PC.  They are blessed to be able to change to what suits them best at the time.  They will never see issues with a slide-out when changing rigs more often than we will.

Irene and I bought our PC with a 30 year ownership plan in-mind.  Generally speaking, a slide-out will have it's issues during that long a period.  Even if not mechanically, but surely with gaskets and seals.  I would expect severe trouble somewhere along the way, forcing us to dump the rig before we are ready to give up our motor home due to our own age.  Of coarse there is no guarantee it would force a premature sale.  We just didn't in-part want to have such concern over that when the extra floor space didn't mean anything to us in the first place.

We also do spend a lot of our time traveling, nights in Walmarts and rest areas.  In those places, it is not recommended to pull out the slide out for risk of another vehicle hitting it.

There are benefits/advantages for both arguments.  Most people pile up on the Yes-side of the line.  Sometimes I feel like I am all alone when stating that we love our no-slide.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 04:22:12 pm by ron.dittmer » Logged

Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
Our Rig Is Available For Viewing Any Time Of Year In Dundee, IL
Stored At Home In Our Heated Garage (Well-Lit & Warm Comfort In Winter)
Carol
Sr. Member
****

Helpful Rating: 3
________
OwnPC: Yes
NewUsed: New
PurchDate: July 2014
Model: 2350 Ford
ModelYear: 2015
Slide: No
IntColor: Greystone with Sterling Leather
ExtColor: Sterling simplified
Location: What day is it?
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« Reply #614 on: April 27, 2014, 09:06:50 am »

Yup, I immersed myself in the slide-no-slide debate, both on this forum and elsewhere.  I also went to several RV shows where I could actually get the feel of it both ways.  It is a big decision and, since this is all so very new and I don't even know what my travel/camping habits will be til I really get out there, it makes the choice a little harder.  I do know that my budget will dictate that I experience the adventure of stealth camping at least some of the time, easier without a slide.

When I walked around slide units (like you say, the vast majority) the extra floor space just seemed sort of wasted to me simply because it will just be me and my doggie.  I was thrilled when the 2450 came out just in time, though, as that extra foot in length (more storage!) and extra wheelbase is very attractive. 

I do know that trade-in or resale value might be lower with a no-slide because of it's lack of popularity, but I'm trying to put together something that I will stay in for the very long-term (heaven and good fortune willing).  At one point, I even considered a diesel because of their longevity, so that if I died in there my son would inherit something nicer than a tin can with bones rattling around inside rolling on the floor.  But upon closer look, the Ford engine looks to be quite reliable, easier and less expensive to work on, and the initial cost outlay in a diesel could go to that awesome list of options.  It will be such a nice tin can!

I sure do appreciate you all playing devil's advocate and making me think hard before PC's hammer and nails and saws start working their irretrievable magic!

Have a great day, wherever you are, and whatever your view--
Carol
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