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Author Topic: Own a 2010 Ford E350 or E450? Read This.  (Read 1582 times)
ron.dittmer
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« on: April 14, 2011, 02:30:37 pm »

If you own a 2010 Ford E350 or E450 chassis, you need to read this.  It seems very easy to check to make sure your engine air intake is not blocked by an improper assembly process.  Click Here And Read
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 03:39:47 pm »

Thanks Ron.

Fortunately, mine was OK.

I suspect the fuel economy was also a lot worse than if it was correct (ours got 10.6 MPG on the 600 mile trip home from Elkhart. Just about 0.3 less than the 2350).
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 03:43:07 pm »

Mine was also OK, thanks Ron.

Bob
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 04:08:20 pm »

Glad to hear you guys are good.

Funny rmmpe mentions such a minor difference in fuel economy between his 2551/E450 and 2350/E350.  I have always thought my 2007 E350's rear axle ratio is not appropriate for my loaded-up motor home and tow vehicle together.  The wind never seems to cooperate either.  I feel my axle ratio bogs down the engine and transmission, especially at slower 55-60mph cruising speeds.  If I drove my 2350/E350 without water, passengers, gear, and tow vehicle, maybe the axle ratio I have would be satisfactory.  I am left to wonder if the E450 axle ratio would have been better for my application.
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 05:43:14 pm »

I'll tell you Ron, the unloaded 2350 with the 4.1:1 sure shifted a lot more than the unloaded 2551 with the 4.56:1 does on the same route.
The 2551 stayed in lockup on all but 1 incline where the 2350 seemed to shift as it passed each and every Mole hill. As best I can tell, the few hundred RPM difference at 65 is all but compensated for by staying in top gear/lockup.

What it'll do loaded I'll have determine when we hit the road again.

Lastly, I believe the E450 axle is a bit wider than the E350's (my wheels appear to stick out slightly on both sides whereas the E350 wheels did not).
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 05:50:09 pm by rmmpe » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 05:54:11 pm »

You may be onto something Ron.  I am very pleased with the response from my E450 with the 4.56 gears, never seems to feel bogged down as you say.  The V10 is known as a hi RPM engine and you can tell this from how it sounds under load.  Maybe the 4.10 gears in the E350 don't get the engine into high enough RPMs at 55-60.  So the result would be that, as RMMPE says, the engine computer shifts down more often to get the RPMS up onto the torque curve.

Some investigation is needed to compare torque/HP curves for the V10 with your RPMs at 55-60.  Could the gears in the E350 axle be be changed to 4.56?  Not sure about the cost.

Bob
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 06:28:03 pm »

You guys are absolutely right about excessive shifting action at highways speeds, especially at lower highway speeds in the 55-60 mph range.  Every little incline, most commonly when the highway passes over secondary roads, the transmission goes down more than one gear.  Then the engine races wildly.  It is quite irritating.

I too wonder if a specialty shop could re-gear my E350 differential to the E450.  I think it would make a big improvement.

Yes, I did hear a while back from others that the E450 stance is noticably wider, going out beyond the rear fenders.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 06:31:34 pm by ron.dittmer » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 06:45:26 pm »

Ron, the E-450 rear stance is 1 inch wider than the E-350. Stuart pointed it out to me when I upgrader my PC to the E-450. I don't have any problems with down shifting, but since I have never driven the E-350 I can not tell you the difference.
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 07:06:15 pm »

From what I can find and post here, the few hundred RPM difference within the 2,000 to 2,500 RPM range relative to E350 and F450 models impact Torque by about 20 to 25 lbs. feet. (Values are RPM/TQ. 1000/358, 1500/375, 2000/380, 2500/400, 2750/410, 3000/400, 3500/395, 3500/390, 4000/375, 4500/300).

Horsepower, a curve indicates at 2,000 RPM, HP is approx. 150, where at 2,500 RPM it's approx. 175.

However, the Torque and Horsepower curves cross at right about 2,200 RPM (170 HP & 400 lbs. feet Torque), where the E450 turns at 65 MPH. Perhaps that particular occurrence contributes to the noticeable difference.

You'll have to compare the values to what your engine turns at another speed.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 07:09:00 pm by rmmpe » Logged

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bobander
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 07:47:34 pm »

From RMMPEs data, between 2000 and 2500 the torque only increase from 380 to 400, only about 5%.

However, using the torque to HP formula of (T x RPM) / 5252 = HP, the HP inceases from 145 to 190, a 30% increase.

May be worth a visit to a specialty shop to discuss.

Bob
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 08:59:49 pm »

The following may seem a little disconnected but there are are conditions when HP will trump Torque.

Take some of the smaller cars with 4 cylinder engines and compare it to my old 1964 426 Max Wedge Plymouth.
The plymouth had gobs of Torque where the little cars have much smaller engines producing very little real Torque. In most cases, less than 20% of that venerable 426. Sure, the 426 was a tire-shredder. But the 0 to 60 acceleration wasn't as quick as some of today's shrimps.

Could it be that 200 to 300 RPM can make enough HP difference to result in what I experienced with the E350 and E450 chassis? Quite possibly.

Although both have, ostensibly, the same transmission, do the E350 and E450 share the same transmission specs?
Could it be the RPM difference has enough oomph behind it to power the bigger vehicle at a lower transmission hydraulic pressure?

A lot of 'ifs', 'possiblys' and 'could be's', which, although I am a mechanical engineer, is convincing enough that I, for the most part, must admit to some speculation.

Regardless, my experience has been there is a significant difference between each model's performance at moderate speeds.   
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 02:39:01 pm »

Ron:

Checked mine last night. It was all correct. 

About the shifting thing. On my 2350 I noticed more shifting on my way up to Maine last year. So, I put the tow/haul mode on and that eliminated that problem.  I compared gas mileage with it on and also off and noticed a very minor difference. Except in flat states I almost always run with the tow/haul feature on. 

My opinion and $1.50 will get you a cup a coffee. Have a great y'all.

David
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