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Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?

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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2012, 06:54:25 pm »
I've advanced the Chevy HHR here as being a great "toad".  Not the least of which because I've had some experience with it.

Yet, nonetheless, if one looks to Wikipedia for guidance, the HHR's point of assembly has been Ramos Arizpe, Mexico.  And having been employed in producing parts for GM and the Ramos Arizpe factory, I'm WAS good.  But NOW I could really use an assembly job, so I'm screwed.

If only GM had built a factory for it in the US, and if only GM employed US citizens in building, manning and servicing that factory!  Oh well.......

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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2012, 07:34:56 pm »


From the Cars.com “American-Made Index”, the HHR scores a “domestic parts rating index" of 50%.  Plus, it’s assembled in Mexico.


The “top ten” American cars?

1) Toyota Camry

2) Ford F-150

3) Chevy Malibu

4) Honda Odyssey

5) Chevy Silverado 1500

6) Toyota Sienna

7) Toyota Tundra

8) GMC Sierra 1500

9) Ford Taurus

10) Toyota Venza


That’s for specific models.  As for pickups, once you include and average ALL pickup models, the “F-250 & F-350”, the “2500 & 3500”, the Tundra does even better.

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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2012, 07:35:28 pm »
Score:

Toyota = 4
GM = 3
Ford = 2
Honda = 1

Looks like Toyota is doing the most in employing and benefiting the average American.these days.

I need a job – not profits.  Although through my mutual funds, I’m getting profits as well.  The only problem is that the longer I’m unemployed, the more I’m consuming that seed corn.

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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2012, 08:05:18 pm »
The domestic payroll that supports domestic assembly, domestic construction, and domestic support services FAR exceeds any profit benefits.  By many multiples.

And even then, profit benefits are multinational now.

Bragging rights?  GM, Ford & Chrysler have always been able to purchase and dis-assemble and reverse-engineer Camry's.  So why no "domestic" models that eats Toyota's "lunch" yet?

(crickets)


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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2012, 08:58:38 pm »
Darnit!!!  I hate to get all political an’ all, but it does factor in……

We can’t entirely ignore the profit motive.  The profit motive is the primary influence on any manufacturers’ decisions regarding domestic content, factory investment and point of assembly.

Once we cruise past this April, the United States will have the highest corporate tax rate in the entire World.

“Profits” “booked” in either Japan or Canada will be taxed significantly less than in the US.

While this will have little effect on the Japanese, especially due the shipping costs that can still be avoided; what of Canada & Mexico?  What of “American” manufacturing profits?

“Profits” “booked” in Canada will be, and have been; taxed significantly less.  Profits made in Mexico will be taxed at a FAR, FAR less ratio than in the US.

I’ll have better luck finding an “auto” or manufacturing job in Mexico.  Or Canada.  But to easily emigrate to Canada, I need have more than $500,000 in net assets.  Which thanks to the real estate and stock market bubbles, I no longer have.

Hint:  As far as manufacturing goes, “Head South, young man; head South!”

Yeah – the US – what a great place to live!

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GoPhoenix

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2012, 07:19:39 am »
Wow! Talk about using a cannon to shot a flea!  :-D   I’ve heard all those arguments before, especially from my loquacious bother-in-law.   Bottom line: buying from an American car company creates jobs and profits for America and Americans.  We’ll never own a car from a foreign car company.  Not when there are plenty of cars made by American car companies rated as good as or better than those of foreign car companies.  We’ve had several Class A motorhomes and other RVs and several tow cars.  The HHR is certainly the best we’ve ever had as a tow car.  And driving it is great – sits up straight like the PC. 
I remember very few of the things that I’ve spent money to buy, but I remember all of the places that I’ve spent money to see.

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TomHanlon

Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2012, 08:01:59 am »
DownBy TheRiver,

A couple of questions for you,
1. It seems that when you post on here, you post several replies in a row instead of just one like the rest of us do. Why is that?
2. You joined this forum way back in December 2009 and claim that you "hope to buy a PC soon". Do you just get on here to preach and complain or are you really going to buy a PC? We all welcome constructive conversations but you seem to like to complain a lot.
I am just wondering what is going on here.

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Bob Mahon

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2012, 08:18:39 am »
You beat me to the punch but thanks, Tom.
Carry on, regardless..................
"In God we trust" to save our country and bring our troops safely home.

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mciai2000

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2012, 09:00:47 pm »
Wow!!!!

DownbyRiver"  I am sorry for your loss of a good paying job right now.  I am confident you will find one soon, as you seem to be an extremely capable individual.

As far your your ideas about profit well............. I AM an AMERICAN  business owner with employees.  Yes, I hate taxes and the some of the stupid business laws.  But I have to tell you, profit unfortunately for you is every business owners motive.  If I cannot make a profit at what I do, then I am not going to do it.  Otherwise, I call that welfare and socialism.  If I want a loan to expand my business, do you know what the first question the banker asks me?  Are you making money?  If the answer is no, well then, no loan, no expansion, no payroll increase, no growth. Does all this stink?  Hell yea!! But the other choice is called socialism and that my friend I am not fond of.   So here I sit trying to make a profit this year so that I can continue to make employee payroll this Friday as we have continuously done since 1930!  Do I employee lots of people? Hell no, but the ones I do, depend on me and our profits. Do  I lay awake at night, wondering how our company can make it another week? Yup! Do I worry about the people who work for me? Yup.  Do I wonder sometimes why I continue to operate our business despite our stupid business laws? Yup.  But do I continue to do this day in and day out because there is no other country in this world that has this great form of democracy?  Damn right I do!

Keep your chin up and head held high because your are an AMERICAN and I guarantee your outlook and future will get better because you live in AMERICA!

Semper Fidelis

DJM
family is a passion...work is a requirement
2012 2552 full body paint(Phoenix # 2)

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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #54 on: February 29, 2012, 11:29:34 pm »
I apologize – I “went rouge” (off-topic) perhaps.

I only commented, because it (American jobs and profits) seemed to matter as a posted opinion.  It matters to me too - greatly.  And if it does matter to anyone else, all I’m saying is, it’s not that simple.

>>>>  “I’ve heard all those arguments before, especially from my loquacious bother-in-law. Bottom line: buying from an American car company creates jobs and profits for America and Americans.”

We’ve all heard those arguments.  But analyze the fruit of what’s reality as well. Buying from “foreign” companies ALSO creates jobs and profits for American investors and Americans workers.  Oftentimes in far greater abundance these days.  Foreign nameplates continue to build new US plants and hire many thousands of workers, while “Detroit” and Silicon Valley” continue to idle or close plants and call centers, and lay off workers.  Just food for thought.  As but one example, Honda’s factories in the United States have recently been a net exporter of vehicles to other countries.  Many such examples exist in all other product lines.

It’s sad that the US, the most creative and technologically capable country cannot figure out how to, or decide to, compete with those who simply improve upon our own designs and patents.  It’s the management and shareholders of “American” companies that create this problem.  Government too.  It’s sad, but it’s reality.

The US also has unrivaled worker productivity and work ethic – so it’s not just wages and benefits alone.  Even Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Kia, Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes thrive as manufacturers here in the US, among but a few.  The US needs once again to become a net exporter and creditor – and manufacturing is the key component.  Not necessarily Ford or GM manufacturing – but DOMESTIC manufacturing and export of all kinds - predicated primarily on a US workforce that provides for US jobs, wages and contracts.  If Ford, GM, Apple or Microsoft can’t “get it together” here in the US?  Oh well.  I’d rather stand with American middle-class wage earners than with corporate interests.



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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #55 on: February 29, 2012, 11:30:19 pm »
In spite of it all, I love the HHR.  It could have been built here, but it wasn’t.  You either have a better idea, product, profitability or productivity, or you don’t.  “Foreign” manufacturers do no worse or better here in benefiting all Americans than “Domestics”, whether in sales, manufacturing or employment.  It’s all a “wash” now.  Why be concerned any longer over nameplates?   Profits are distributed internationally, while domestic plant wages and costs are not.  I’m willing to bet that more mortgages are paid, more gas is put into tanks, more taxes are paid, more pensions are paid, and more food is lain upon families’ tables by domestic wages and costs than profits do.  Wages paid me by ANY employer, or actual capital investment in the US by ANY manufacturer; strike me as being more “American” in nature than any dependency on “American” bailouts, unemployment benefits or welfare.  America is more an idea – an ideal, than a label.  Allowing us to work smart – to work hard – AND to EARN our wages fairly is more “American” than whom it is we think we work for.  I want money – I need money - but I want to WORK for it.  If Ford or GM has no work available for me?  Oh well, they’re no more “American” than any one else these days.

Sorry – I’m passionate.  I love America.  And I believe that unless we embrace radical change on many fronts, we’ll fail as a country and as an idea.  Equating the support of “buying” Ford or GM or Washington as being patriotic no longer necessarily profits either individual Americans, nor the American “idea”.


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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #56 on: February 29, 2012, 11:30:50 pm »
PLEASE - do not take my comments as a critique of any individual – it is absolutely not meant in that spirit.  It’s only a critique of what I see as outmoded thoughts as juxtaposed against current realities.  The old ideas no longer pertain.  “Buy(ing) American”  is a 30+ year old sentiment that is no longer operative or of value.  Such sentiment, as originally advanced, as being in support of American employment.  A more modern, relevant slogan should be “Employ Americans”.  These days, “buying “American” ” ain’t necessarily “employing Americans” any longer, nor necessarily “profiting” Americans, either.


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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2012, 01:43:48 am »
And, “Wow” to you DJ, as well as others!

Just so you know, I’m speaking as a life-long registered Republican, AND as a past business owner, AND as an inveterate family-owned business employee, such as with your own employees.  As an employee, I have never chosen ANY other type of employer.  With a family-owned business, you know who’s in charge of what, and decisions are made swiftly and accurately; and all credit due your efforts and success is swiftly appreciated and credited.  You always know where you stand.  Reality.  There is no such nobility, nor such reality as a “small” business.  These are the businesses that are the backbone of America, and those employers who provide the most jobs, the most OPPORTUNITY to us all.

I understand “profit” all too well.  “Profit” is what creates “real” jobs – “real” wealth – “real”ity.  I KNOW that.  In my last job?  While aware we “grossed” $40M, I was also aware that almost all of that was eaten up by maintenance, shipping, tooling, electricity, taxes of all kinds, insurance of all kinds, telephony, etc.  And most of all, PAYROLL, blah, blah, blah.  Had we no profit, we would have nothing.  However, most saw the $40M figure, but could not understand what “NET” means.  And that’s even BEFORE taxes!  LOL!  Many bridled against the owner’s apparent “wealth”, yet never realized that he was due that wealth for taking a personal financial risk, each and every day.  And further, regardless of his personal “extravagances”, few, if any, would understand that in robbing the owner of any and all income, profits or benefits paid on his behalf – that this sum would only finance something on the order of a 20-cent raise for us all.  AND would rob us all of the very motivation by which he might continue, and his own obvious talent in securing contracts.  I get it.

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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2012, 01:44:51 am »
My then-current boss was NOT given the company by his father.  He BOUGHT it from his father.  At FULL value.  Ironically, I came to find out that my paternal grandmother, as a European WW1 widow and indentured servant immigrant (white slave – let’s not mince words) , was his father’s nanny almost a century ago now.   And so provided me, not a sense of “entitlement”, but a sense of pride for a business not my own, and for a pride of capitalism and America.  Not only had this business’ profits provided for the establishment of a foothold for my family in America almost a century ago, but amazingly, had also provided for my family’s security today.  Admittedly – a quite unusual personal circumstance, but yet - Thank God for my employer!  This company and others not only provided for my needs currently, but had also provided the very means by which my own family was able to come to America in the first place!

While I personally liked his father, I did NOT like him - yet I absolutely RESPECTED him and his family.  And with the exception of his idiot son and daughter, every other family member worked well, and worked HARD - just as we all did, and were all proud for being allowed the privilege of being able to be productive, AND earn a good and honorable living as well.

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DownBy TheRiver

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Re: Toads or tow vehicles? What brand do you use?
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2012, 01:45:30 am »
DJM Said:

>>>>  “Keep your chin up and head held high because your are an AMERICAN and I guarantee your outlook and future will get better because you live in AMERICA!”

Hoo-Hoo!  Agree whole-heartedly!  And the same for PC!  My own family history IS the “American Experience”!  Currently though, I just hope reality is realized sooner, rather than later!  My ancestors relied more on “later” rather than “sooner”, and it paid off in spades.  And has thus far paid off for me as well in these “modern” times.  While I cannot deny that patience is a virtue, I cannot also discount that apathy, these days; is all-too-readily embraced as either “patience” or “virtue”.  Get real, people!

The clock’s a-tickin’!