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Author Topic: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used.  (Read 9757 times)
sajohnson
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« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2012, 06:43:00 pm »

One thing I'd really like to see is the PC "virtual construction tour" mentioned in the PC brochure.  I've checked the PC website but didn't see anything like that.  If you or someone else could give me a link I'd really appreciate it.
The original virtual tour is a many slide PowerPoint presentation with sound narration that runs around 14.5 minutes.
I got a fairly clean copy of it over 4 years ago but can't share it due to it's 72MB size.
You can watch a technically ill (poor sound and smaller pictures) copy of it on Youtube HERE
Understand that the presentation was made to demonstrate the 2008 model year so there are some superficial differences between 2008 and 2012.

Thanks Ron!

Just curious -- any idea why it is not available at the PC website?

I watched the tour on YouTube and while the quality wasn't the best (as you said) it was certainly watchable and informative.

Actually, as I was watching it I realized I had seen at least some of it before. 

It really looks like PC does a good job.  As an electro-mechanical tech I like that PC uses all continuous runs of wire and all of the terminations looked clean and professional.  In addition, the plumbing looked well done.  I'm not familiar with that plastic pipe/hose, but the connections to the brass fittings looked solid.

There wasn't really anything I saw that made me question the quality of construction.  In one frame they did show a cover (over a water tank maybe?) that was made from wafer board, but everything else seemed to be plywood or solid wood.

After that I watched the Coach House video for comparison, since it was right there.  CH is clearly a bit better quality in some areas, but not near enough to justify the additional cost.  One thing I noticed was that CH stated all of their insulation -- walls, floor, and roof -- is R-28.  That's impressive for a RV.  I wonder what the R-value of PC's insulation is?  Just curious -- I'm not gonna spend $150K or whatever just to get R-28 insulation!   

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sajohnson
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« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2012, 06:59:45 pm »

If you search the Forum, General Discussion for "Troubleshooting electrical problems in rear camera hookup", go to reply #23 and you will see a picture of our Sony monitor for the backup camera with the extension. We ordered the extension but we gave Phoenix the name of where we go it, so they can probably get one if asked.

There is more headroom in the Sprinter cab; therefore, the t.v is up higher. I really feel, that with the Sprinter, you need an adjustable t.v mount. Mor-ride has many t.v mounts available.

George

Very slick set-up!

I'm not sure I understand why the TV is mounted higher in the Sprinter.  I guess I'd have to see it.  I have noticed the difference in cab height but the overall height is only 3" more with the Sprinter (according to the PC brochure I have anyway).  TV mounts are almost always a worthwhile addition anyway.  It's important to be comfortable and have the viewing angle right.

Sherman
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JackD
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« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2012, 12:22:48 pm »

Sherman -- admittedly, I'm prejudiced, but when I looked at CH, they offered no changes from their standard & options -- I specifically requested the Sani Con & was told "no" --- and, as you say, the price & trade value was rediculous (sp).  As I've said before, the PC offered the amenities & fit & finish that I didn't find elsewhere in the 23-24 ft. range.  And, as others have said, the folks at the factory go out of their way to please.
Jack
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sajohnson
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« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2012, 02:42:28 pm »

Sherman -- admittedly, I'm prejudiced, but when I looked at CH, they offered no changes from their standard & options -- I specifically requested the Sani Con & was told "no" --- and, as you say, the price & trade value was rediculous (sp).  As I've said before, the PC offered the amenities & fit & finish that I didn't find elsewhere in the 23-24 ft. range.  And, as others have said, the folks at the factory go out of their way to please.
Jack

Jack,

You're preaching to the choir.  ;-)

DW and I don't have anywhere near that kind of money to drop on an RV, and even if we did the additional expense is hard to justify.

For what they charge I'm amazed they don't offer the Sani Con standard, and to not at least offer it as an option is just ridiculous. 

I didn't even get so far as to compare options.  I watched the CH video because it was right there, and I thought it would be interesting to compare the videos back-to-back.  What I meant to say was that PC is clearly a better value.  CH may have some advantages (R-28 insulation, one-piece shell) but not nearly enough to justify the price difference.

The primary claim to fame for CH seems to be the one-piece shell.  While that would seem to be preferable to the way most class C RVs are made, as a practical matter I don't see that it makes a real difference.  I don't hear anything about PC, LTV, or WGO coaches developing leaks so it's pretty much a non-issue, near as I can tell.

Bottom line, PC holds up very well next to CH, which is very impressive considering the major price difference.

DW and I have come full-circle back to PC.  The only reason we started looking elsewhere was to try and find a walk-around queen in the same size coach.  There are a few, but they aren't what we're looking for otherwise.

I've been searching coast-to-coast for a 2350 w/dinette on a Sprinter chassis but haven't found any -- not one.  Are they not very popular, or are people just holding on to them?

Sherman 
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2012, 03:21:35 pm »

Our first motor home Here was a one piece like Coach House, but much simpler and used low grade finish materials.  Brand new it cost us $12,225 in 1983.  Strangely enough, I still dealt with a little water getting inside.  Most got in from the dual hindging rear wall & door, some from around the marker lights and some around the windows.  The one piece shell suffered from a few stress cracks, but never was structural nor involved concern for water.

Very few 2350s with a fixed dinette (no-slide) exist.  Nearly all have a sofa in a slideout as it is quite the popular choice.
My wife and I have to be the odd-balls in our thinking.  You should see our regular house.  We designed a one-of-a-kind.

The relative height of the TV is notably higher in a Sprinter than in either Ford given the driver's cab ceiling height is significant higher.  PC-USA compensates by using a taller B+ cap on the Ford, and a low profile version on the Sprinter.  Of coarse, the cabinets on each side of the TV are smaller.  I personally don't see any of this being significant.  Just noting the minor differences for the discussion.  Some would say the improved head room the Sprinter's front cab is better at opening it up for living room space.







« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 03:32:50 pm by ron.dittmer » Logged

Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
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sajohnson
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« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2012, 10:07:04 pm »

Thanks for the photos Ron, they're great!

One difference I noticed is the seats -- the seats in the Ford look a lot more comfy.

At least you can tell people you and your wife aren't the only oddballs -- my wife and I really prefer the dinette also, and we need to get the larger one you have since we may need to use it as an adult-sized bed.

Is there a 2350 with the larger dinette in a slide?  Or is the larger dinette only offered in the coaches without a slide?

Also, I may have asked before, but what are the dimensions of the dinette _bed_ in your PC 2350?  I hate to bother you but I could not find that info on the PC website.

Same with the shower.  As I recall, I was able to stand up in the shower in Tom's 2350, but I'm curious about the dimensions, particularly the height.

I've noticed that most RV mfrs, including PC, aren't always very forthcoming with some dimensions.  That's a shame because there are certain dimensions that are important to buyers and not having them readily available makes things more difficult.

Something else that would be very helpful would be an archive section that has brochures with features, specs, options, etc for previous model years.  Very few mfrs seem to do this either (WGO is one that does).

Not picking on PC, just some observations.

I like the larger cabinets over the cab in the Ford, but I prefer the exterior look/profile of the Sprinter-based 2350.
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gradygal
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« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2012, 07:04:15 am »

I can tell you, from experience, that the Sprinter seats are more comfortable than the Ford.

Viewing the t.v in the Ford is much easier on the neck. We found that we had to look up with the Sprinter (we reccomended the mount in a previous post).

We like the profile of the Sprinter over the Ford. We had many more compliments on the Sprinter than we have had on the Ford.

For us, the layout of the 2551 was the best, so we traded the 2350 for the 2551.

Judi
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2012, 09:39:26 am »

Keep in-mind the 2350 dimensions I am providing are from my 2007 model year.

Dinette
Bed dimensions:  71W x 36D (71W is with cushions removed, finished board to finished board)
Table dimensions: 29W x 34D
Leg room: 29.5W
Overall dimension of dinette: 73.5W x 37D
I am 5'-11" so it was a surprise to me to see the width matched my height.  The few times I slept on the dinette when sick, I guess I never slept like a soldier laying at attention.  It seemed to be plenty wide for me.

Shower
Just above the shower pan: 34W x 23D
Max to skylight dome: 73H
Keep in mind, the shower narrows as it gets higher due to the curved exterior wall.  The roof is crowned, so the shower ceiling is vaulted.  Looking at my shower, if PC-USA installed the plumbing on the opposite "outside" wall, there would be much more room to take a shower.  But that would put the plumbing in a sealed vacu-bonded wall, not a hollow interior wall.  If I were to order a new PC just for me, I would still inquire about doing that, and discuss any repercusions of it.  You might end up with a raised wall panel/channel for the two pipes to pass through.  I can see why they did it the way it is, given the plumbing is done before the exterior walls are installed.  But it would have been nice.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 12:46:35 pm by ron.dittmer » Logged

Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2012, 09:51:54 am »

Something else that would be very helpful would be an archive section that has brochures with features, specs, options, etc for previous model years.  Very few mfrs seem to do this either (WGO is one that does).
I ask Aimee that question once every few years.

I have PDFs of 4 model years...2007, 2009, 2011, 2012
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Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
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aimee
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« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2012, 12:40:21 pm »

Thanks Ron!

Just curious -- any idea why it is not available at the PC website?

http://phoenixusarv.com/tour.html

I understand that some of the virtual tours do not work properly in some browsers. I haven't had a chance to remedy that yet.

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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2012, 12:48:54 pm »

Aimee, how do we navigate to the tour page?  It would be ideal if there was a dedicated blue button on the left-hand side with the others.
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« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2012, 12:52:41 pm »

There's a link in the footer.
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JackD
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« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2012, 03:22:06 pm »

Here I go again --- I agree with Judi on the comfort of seats in the sprinter, although the later model year fords are pretty good too.  And, sherman, I would likewise love to see a perminent double or queen in the 23-24 ft range, but not to be had -- the beds in all 3 of the units we've had have been a problem, but the good folks at Phoenix are working with me for a fix.  I think Ron is right about the dinette/sofa in the 2350s -- the sofa offers a second bed if the corner gets to crowded. (We had the problem of me crawling over the DW in the middle of the night, and I tend to thrash around, so the corner became a sore spot) Just us, I'm sure -- others seem to get along fine with it!!!
Jack
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« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2012, 04:41:43 pm »

I have to support Jack in the thought the corner bed is questionable. We had a 2350 and could not sleep together in it (I'm not overly large but am a 6 foot, 210 pound guy who requires a lot of sleeping room). Peg couldn't sleep on the fold-out sofa comfortably either. Consequently, we went to a twin bed 2551/2552.

If PC had a 24-25 foot model with a walkaround double bed in the rear, that would definitely have been a very big consideration in our decision.
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sajohnson
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« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2012, 10:04:27 pm »

I can tell you, from experience, that the Sprinter seats are more comfortable than the Ford.

Viewing the t.v in the Ford is much easier on the neck. We found that we had to look up with the Sprinter (we reccomended the mount in a previous post).

We like the profile of the Sprinter over the Ford. We had many more compliments on the Sprinter than we have had on the Ford.

For us, the layout of the 2551 was the best, so we traded the 2350 for the 2551.

Judi

I agree with you about the profile of the Sprinter-based 2350 and 2400 -- of course my wife and I started out looking at class B RVs.  The E-350/450 rigs look good too.

An adjustable TV mount is a great idea -- especially when a TV must be mounted in a less than ideal location.

I'm glad to hear the Sprinter seats are more comfortable.  In the photos Ron posted, the Ford seats look extra-plush, but there's also such a thing as too much cushioning and not enough support.

Sherman
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