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Author Topic: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used.  (Read 9650 times)
sajohnson
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« Reply #90 on: March 22, 2012, 06:52:46 pm »

Let me make one suggestion.  We have a 2006 PC 2551 with the electric sofa in a slide out.  It is a passably comfortable seat and bed, but not outstanding in either position.  You could probably have any RV sofa installed in a new unit that will fit and there are a lot of sofa beds in the market place.  You might want to see what's out there and broaden your choices.

Jerry

Great idea Jerry, thank you!

I'd rather not have to replace the sofa in a brand new (or almost new) RV, but at least I know it's a possibility.

Sherman
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sajohnson
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« Reply #91 on: March 22, 2012, 06:56:37 pm »

Jerry has a good point -- I was going to suggest the same -- if you want to sleep 3 or 4, I really don't think the 2350 or 2400 is for you, but you will have to see for yourself....the 2551, or 2552 are great rigs ----

The electric sofa does not have a manual back up, but it is controlled by a rocker switch, and wires can be easily reversed or jumped if it fails. I carried, and still have, a spare, since I did get caught in our first experience with the 2350 - the switch failed with the sofa extended -learned a lesson pretty quick!  nod.  Also, I think they are using a heaver duty switch in current models.
Jack

Hmmm...

I'm a technician so I'm not overly concerned with problems like this, but if there's no way to manually operate the sofa bed I have to wonder how common failures other than the switch are?  The motor for example. 

Sherman
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sajohnson
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« Reply #92 on: March 22, 2012, 07:00:12 pm »

Still wondering -- is the 2350 w/slide on the Sprinter chassis limited to the sofa bed or smaller dinette?

When did PC switch from the electric sofa to the one with an air mattress?

Thanks!

Sherman
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« Reply #93 on: March 22, 2012, 10:46:06 pm »

Your post has it backwards.  They switched from the air mattress to the electric sofa-- and I think it was in 2011.  Saw a new 2350 Sprinter with slide and sofa at the Good Sam Rally in Phoenix today - nice rig.  You should call Stuart and make a deal before it's sold.
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« Reply #94 on: March 22, 2012, 11:03:32 pm »

Your post has it backwards.  They switched from the air mattress to the electric sofa-- and I think it was in 2011.  Saw a new 2350 Sprinter with slide and sofa at the Good Sam Rally in Phoenix today - nice rig.  You should call Stuart and make a deal before it's sold.

Well, now I'm more confused than before!

I was just looking at the 2007 and 2009 PC brochures that Ron emailed to me.  Under "Popular Options" both say "slide-out w/electric sofa".

What am I missing?

Also, WRT my posts above:  To phrase what we're looking for another way -- if possible, we'd like to have the 2350 w/slide on a Sprinter chassis with the larger dinette -- the one that Ron has in his 2350 (w/no slide).

Ron said his dinette makes into a bed that is 71 inches long.  That's ok (for most folks), but anything much shorter would only be good for children. 

If the only dinette that's available with the slide is smaller than that, we'll go with the sofa.

Sherman
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #95 on: March 22, 2012, 11:36:48 pm »

Sherman,

It is absolutely impossible to place the size dinette I have in the slide-out of "Any" 2350 (and many other models) Ford or Sprinter.  The slide-out wall thickness & interior trim (both sides) of the slide-out eats up many inches of linear wall.  Also the transition/angled wall directly behind the driver cannot get utilized.  Slide-outs of every kind cannot utilize that angled wall.

The older models with smaller slide-out, the fridge is stationary.  My dinette butts right up against the fridge and on the opposite end, it utilizes half of the angled wall.  With slide-outs, that angled wall space is sometimes utilized with creative cabinetry.

The newer models with larger slide-out, the fridge is inside the slide-out, therefore gets shifted maybe 4 to 5 inches toward the driver which yields the same losses in wall space.

Study the floor plans of the 2350 with and without a slide- out.  Note how the no-slide dinette utilizes the angled wall, but the slide-out couch cannot.  This is how and why my dinette is bigger than it could be in any slide-out.

It might be more clear if you closely study the pictures of my dinette directly behind the driver HERE.  It is hard to see the wall behind the driver is angled, but it is angled all the way to the dinette window.  The backrest cushion there is smaller than the cushion on the other side.  A very small sacrifice for a nice size dinette.
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sajohnson
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« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2012, 03:11:10 am »

Sherman,

It is absolutely impossible to place the size dinette I have in the slide-out of "Any" 2350 (and many other models) Ford or Sprinter.  The slide-out wall thickness & interior trim (both sides) of the slide-out eats up many inches of linear wall.  Also the transition/angled wall directly behind the driver cannot get utilized.  Slide-outs of every kind cannot utilize that angled wall.

The older models with smaller slide-out, the fridge is stationary.  My dinette butts right up against the fridge and on the opposite end, it utilizes half of the angled wall.  With slide-outs, that angled wall space is sometimes utilized with creative cabinetry.

The newer models with larger slide-out, the fridge is inside the slide-out, therefore gets shifted maybe 4 to 5 inches toward the driver which yields the same losses in wall space.

Study the floor plans of the 2350 with and without a slide- out.  Note how the no-slide dinette utilizes the angled wall, but the slide-out couch cannot.  This is how and why my dinette is bigger than it could be in any slide-out.

It might be more clear if you closely study the pictures of my dinette directly behind the driver HERE.  It is hard to see the wall behind the driver is angled, but it is angled all the way to the dinette window.  The backrest cushion there is smaller than the cushion on the other side.  A very small sacrifice for a nice size dinette.

Thanks Ron, that's what I was afraid of.  Looks like we'll have to give up on the larger dinette, because DW definitely wants a slide.

The smaller dinette in the slide won't give us the extra bed we need, so we'll have to settle for the electric sofa/bed.

It's really too bad.  I was thinking about using the dinette the same way you and your wife do -- as a place to "...set up her lap top computer [and have] a drink & a snack... to play computer games or manipulate vacation pictures & videos, all done while watching the world go by.  Not possible with a slide out couch."

I have a few questions:

You said, "...the barrel chair pivots and moves forward and backward.  It can be positioned to utilize the dining table without too much of a reach." -- How is this possible?  That chair is secured to the floor, right?

You said, "...it might be worth considering the "UN-Documented" option of getting the single bed located over the front cab." -- I'm assuming that this is not possible with the Sprinter chassis, correct?  

Gradygal said, "The 2551 has twin beds-GREAT-and a lower tv. And a terribly hard ride." -- Why the extra-hard ride?  Is the E-450 suspension that much stiffer?  (PS: I really like the two captain's chairs and table idea).

You said, "But I do have to admit, the dinette is not something to sit on for hours on-end.  I understand why some people like Judi & George ordered theirs with two captain chairs and a swing-up table.  But that does sacrifice the two bench seat storage areas and the single convert-a-bed." -- Of course gradygal has the 2551 -- are you saying that it is possible to exchange the dinette or the sofa/bed in the _2350_ for two chairs and a table?  That would be sweet -- if we could get the 'undocumented' single bunk over the cab with a Sprinter chassis.  The bunk would replace the lost sleeping area, but we would (as you said) be giving up storage space.  That might be a worthwhile trade-off though.

You said, "With our 2350, we replaced the uncomfortable barrel chair by the entry door with a 3rd captain seat." -- That's also a good idea.  The only thing missing is a table.  Unfortunately it looks like there's no room for one.

Finally, you said, "BTW: The slideout today with the fridge included weighs over 500 pounds more than one without a slideout.  You would have much less concern of over-loading the chassis, especially a Sprinter." -- 500 pounds?!  That's a huge amount of additional weight.  I was told that in the WGO View/Navion a slide might add 200 to 250 pounds.  Any idea why there's such a difference in the weight of the slides between WGO and PC?  Since we will almost certainly be getting a Sprinter chassis, weight is a big concern.  Of course regardless of the chassis used, weight is the enemy.  Extra weight negatively affects braking, handling, acceleration, cornering, and fuel efficiency.  I'm hoping that 500 pound figure is a bit high.  





« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 03:15:16 am by sajohnson » Logged

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bobander
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« Reply #97 on: March 23, 2012, 02:01:58 pm »

Your post has it backwards.  They switched from the air mattress to the electric sofa-- and I think it was in 2011.  Saw a new 2350 Sprinter with slide and sofa at the Good Sam Rally in Phoenix today - nice rig.  You should call Stuart and make a deal before it's sold.

Well, now I'm more confused than before!

I was just looking at the 2007 and 2009 PC brochures that Ron emailed to me.  Under "Popular Options" both say "slide-out w/electric sofa".

What am I missing?

Sherman

When we were shopping for our 2010, we looked at 2009 models also.  2010 was the first year for the sofa/bed with air mattress (manual), the 2009 had an electric sofa/bed.  I believe the current split electric sofa/bed came out in 2012, which means the air mattress sofa/bed is found only on 2010 and 2011 models.  I suggest a call to the factory to confirm this.

We compared the 2009 electric sofa/bed to the 2010 sofa/bed with air mattress and quickly decided that the 2010 sofa/bed was the one for us.  The 2010 was more comfortable for us to sit on and also the 2009 had a longer sitting cushion that took up about 8 inches more of floor space.  Also, the 2010 air mattress sofa/bed has a large drawer under it that we find very useful.  We travel by ourselves except for the few days a year that we make a short trip with grandkids, the air mattress is fine for the grandkids, but we would't want to sleep on it.  We haven't seen the new split electric sofa/bed so have no opinion on it.

Bob
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« Reply #98 on: March 23, 2012, 03:26:16 pm »

Your post has it backwards.  They switched from the air mattress to the electric sofa-- and I think it was in 2011.  Saw a new 2350 Sprinter with slide and sofa at the Good Sam Rally in Phoenix today - nice rig.  You should call Stuart and make a deal before it's sold.

Well, now I'm more confused than before!

I was just looking at the 2007 and 2009 PC brochures that Ron emailed to me.  Under "Popular Options" both say "slide-out w/electric sofa".

What am I missing?

Sherman

When we were shopping for our 2010, we looked at 2009 models also.  2010 was the first year for the sofa/bed with air mattress (manual), the 2009 had an electric sofa/bed.  I believe the current split electric sofa/bed came out in 2012, which means the air mattress sofa/bed is found only on 2010 and 2011 models.  I suggest a call to the factory to confirm this.

We compared the 2009 electric sofa/bed to the 2010 sofa/bed with air mattress and quickly decided that the 2010 sofa/bed was the one for us.  The 2010 was more comfortable for us to sit on and also the 2009 had a longer sitting cushion that took up about 8 inches more of floor space.  Also, the 2010 air mattress sofa/bed has a large drawer under it that we find very useful.  We travel by ourselves except for the few days a year that we make a short trip with grandkids, the air mattress is fine for the grandkids, but we would't want to sleep on it.  We haven't seen the new split electric sofa/bed so have no opinion on it.

Bob

Thanks Bob!  That makes sense, and corresponds with the post from lmichael.

Regarding the air mattress, I'm sure it's fine for kids (they can sleep almost anywhere!) but we're looking for a bed that will be comfortable for an adult because there's a _chance_ that my wife may get tired of me climbing over her in the middle of the night.  ;-)  So, one of us may end up sleeping on the sofa bed.  Also, we may occasionally have another adult with us.

Just to clarify, when you say the 2009 had a longer sitting cushion, you mean from front to back (your knees to your back), is that correct?  If so, 8" seems like a very large difference to me -- as if one sofa has cushions that are too deep and/or the other is too shallow.

Also, you said the 2010 sofa/bed has a large drawer -- does that mean the 2009 and earlier electric sofa/bed does not?  If so, that's a significant drawback.

Finally, question for all -- I'm sort of assuming that no matter what sort of additional bed we get (sofa/bed, dinette, 'undocumented' cab-over bunk) we will need to add a high-quality memory foam topper to make it truly comfortable.  Hopefully that's all that will be required.  My question is -- would either of the two beds we're talking about be more conducive to using a memory foam topper?  I'm thinking the electric sofa/bed because of the cushions, but I haven't seen the air mattress sofa.  What is left when the air mattress is removed?

Thanks for your help!

Sherman


 
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« Reply #99 on: March 23, 2012, 05:40:35 pm »

Thanks Bob!  That makes sense, and corresponds with the post from lmichael.

Just to clarify, when you say the 2009 had a longer sitting cushion, you mean from front to back (your knees to your back), is that correct?  If so, 8" seems like a very large difference to me -- as if one sofa has cushions that are too deep and/or the other is too shallow.

Also, you said the 2010 sofa/bed has a large drawer -- does that mean the 2009 and earlier electric sofa/bed does not?  If so, that's a significant drawback.

Finally, question for all -- I'm sort of assuming that no matter what sort of additional bed we get (sofa/bed, dinette, 'undocumented' cab-over bunk) we will need to add a high-quality memory foam topper to make it truly comfortable.  Hopefully that's all that will be required.  My question is -- would either of the two beds we're talking about be more conducive to using a memory foam topper?  I'm thinking the electric sofa/bed because of the cushions, but I haven't seen the air mattress sofa.  What is left when the air mattress is removed?

Thanks for your help!

Sherman
 

Sherman,

Overall they measured 6 - 8 inches different from the front of the sofa seat cushion to the face of the kitched cabinet directly across, the 2009 seat cushion felt too long to us and the 2010 could be a little longer - neither was perfect but the 2010 was more comfortable for us to sit on.  The extra depth also come from the bed cushion portion that gets folded up behind the back of the sofa pushing the whole assy out.

The big drawer under the 2010 is very useful, the new 2012 split electric sofa/bed does not have a drawer and I believe the 2009 does not have one either, maybe an owner can confirm, or call the factory.

We put 2 inch memory foam toppers on the twin bed foam mattresses in our 2551, very comfortable.  I don't know how the memory foam topper would work over the sofa air mattress.  If you don't use the air mattress, there is a fabric covered surface that could support some kind of foam mattress, but the problem would be where to store it.  There is some room behind the sofa back that might hold a thin foam mattress.  I recall that others here have replaced the factory air mattress with a higher quality air mattress, maybe that is the better solution.

Bob

EDIT,
I was just looking at photos of various units on the PC website, you can see the difference in how far the seat cushions protrude out beyond the slide face frame next to the seat cushion, very obvious.  Look for a used PC in the sold inventory of the year you are interested in.
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« Reply #100 on: March 23, 2012, 07:00:44 pm »

Thanks Bob!  That makes sense, and corresponds with the post from lmichael.

Just to clarify, when you say the 2009 had a longer sitting cushion, you mean from front to back (your knees to your back), is that correct?  If so, 8" seems like a very large difference to me -- as if one sofa has cushions that are too deep and/or the other is too shallow.

Also, you said the 2010 sofa/bed has a large drawer -- does that mean the 2009 and earlier electric sofa/bed does not?  If so, that's a significant drawback.

Finally, question for all -- I'm sort of assuming that no matter what sort of additional bed we get (sofa/bed, dinette, 'undocumented' cab-over bunk) we will need to add a high-quality memory foam topper to make it truly comfortable.  Hopefully that's all that will be required.  My question is -- would either of the two beds we're talking about be more conducive to using a memory foam topper?  I'm thinking the electric sofa/bed because of the cushions, but I haven't seen the air mattress sofa.  What is left when the air mattress is removed?

Thanks for your help!

Sherman
 

Sherman,

Overall they measured 6 - 8 inches different from the front of the sofa seat cushion to the face of the kitched cabinet directly across, the 2009 seat cushion felt too long to us and the 2010 could be a little longer - neither was perfect but the 2010 was more comfortable for us to sit on.  The extra depth also come from the bed cushion portion that gets folded up behind the back of the sofa pushing the whole assy out.

The big drawer under the 2010 is very useful, the new 2012 split electric sofa/bed does not have a drawer and I believe the 2009 does not have one either, maybe an owner can confirm, or call the factory.

We put 2 inch memory foam toppers on the twin bed foam mattresses in our 2551, very comfortable.  I don't know how the memory foam topper would work over the sofa air mattress.  If you don't use the air mattress, there is a fabric covered surface that could support some kind of foam mattress, but the problem would be where to store it.  There is some room behind the sofa back that might hold a thin foam mattress.  I recall that others here have replaced the factory air mattress with a higher quality air mattress, maybe that is the better solution.

Bob

EDIT,
I was just looking at photos of various units on the PC website, you can see the difference in how far the seat cushions protrude out beyond the slide face frame next to the seat cushion, very obvious.  Look for a used PC in the sold inventory of the year you are interested in.

Good suggestion to look at the photos of used rigs on PC's website.  The sofa in the 2010 2551 that's been sold definitely does not stick out as far as the sofa in the 2007 2350 that's still for sale.  Interestingly though, the sofa in the 2010 2350 that's for sale also sticks out quite far.

In any case, I get what you are saying and I appreciate you pointing out the extra storage space under the sofa with the air mattress.

I've never found an air mattress that was truly comfortable.  We use a Tempur-Pedic at home, so we'll probably end up usig a memory foam topper on the electric sofa, because the sofa with the air mattress would require a full foam mattress with would be hard to deal with and store.  We'll likely replace the mattress on the corner bed with memory foam as well.

Sherman 


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« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2012, 08:35:50 pm »

1) You said, "...the barrel chair pivots and moves forward and backward.  It can be positioned to utilize the dining table without too much of a reach." -- How is this possible?  That chair is secured to the floor, right?

2) You said, "...it might be worth considering the "UN-Documented" option of getting the single bed located over the front cab." -- I'm assuming that this is not possible with the Sprinter chassis, correct?  

3) Gradygal said, "The 2551 has twin beds-GREAT-and a lower tv. And a terribly hard ride." -- Why the extra-hard ride?  Is the E-450 suspension that much stiffer?  (PS: I really like the two captain's chairs and table idea).

4)  if we could get the 'undocumented' single bunk over the cab with a Sprinter chassis.  The bunk would replace the lost sleeping area, but we would (as you said) be giving up storage space.  That might be a worthwhile trade-off though.
1) Our 3rd captain seat is bolted to the floor.  It has an adjustment to pull forward, regardless of the direction it faces.  So if you face the table with the seat, pull forward to the table.  You cannot eat at our dinette, but you can easily place things there while "lap" eating.

2) The undocumented over-the-cab bed would be for a small child, maybe two if they get along.  I don't think it could accomodate an adult.  And you are correct in assuming the Sprinter's head clearence would be very confining.

3) Understand the E450 is used on the largest of class-C motor homes.  So for a lighter weighted smaller 2551, there is excessive CCC margin, so the ride would naturally be rougher due to the stiffness of the suspension.  Did you ever drive a box truck, empty, and full?  Empty is jarring, full is a cushy ride.  The same principle here.

4) The undocumented over-cab bed would offer a massive open storage area, so much more than usual because the chassis roof would not be cut away.  You get a very strong front cab for roll-over protection, but give up the easy pass-thru and also give up the place to mount a TV.  The over-all interior would surely feel more confining.
I wonder if someone ever requested that front area to be full size (no pass-thru cutout) enclosed with cabinet doors.  That would make a huge enclosed storage area.
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« Reply #102 on: March 23, 2012, 10:33:26 pm »

sajohnson, you may be over thinking this whole issue.  I know the sleeping arrangement is important, but it's not the most important consideration when buying a particular rv.  My 2010 2350 couch has the air mattress.  Not comfortable and prone to leaks.  The mattress on the corner bed has an angle on one side/end that I would imagine would make it rather expensive to have another mattress made.  Yesterday I laid on the new electric sofa that is constructed with memory foam, and it was very comfortable.  The storage under my existing sofa is great considering the limited storage in the 2350, but I would trade it for the comfort of the new memory foam couch.  In fact, I did.  I purchased a new 2552--not just for the memory foam couch, but it was a consideration.  I would suggest you look at your overall rv needs, and buy one that matches most of them.  For the price, pc can't be beat.  I love the driveability of my 2350, comfort and overall performance--and I have no regrets buying it.  We're going full-time and wanted a little more room/storage, so we purchased the 2552.  I could just as easily stayed with the 2350 and been very satisfied.  My advice--call Stuart.
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« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2012, 12:18:04 am »

Good suggestion to look at the photos of used rigs on PC's website.  The sofa in the 2010 2551 that's been sold definitely does not stick out as far as the sofa in the 2007 2350 that's still for sale.  Interestingly though, the sofa in the 2010 2350 that's for sale also sticks out quite far.

Sherman 

Sherman,

I saw that 2010 2350 and concluded that they replaced the original air matress sofa/bed with a new 2012 split electric sofa/bed.  You can see it half extended in one of the photos.

Bob
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« Reply #104 on: March 24, 2012, 02:43:23 am »

Good suggestion to look at the photos of used rigs on PC's website.  The sofa in the 2010 2551 that's been sold definitely does not stick out as far as the sofa in the 2007 2350 that's still for sale.  Interestingly though, the sofa in the 2010 2350 that's for sale also sticks out quite far.

Sherman 

Sherman,

I saw that 2010 2350 and concluded that they replaced the original air matress sofa/bed with a new 2012 split electric sofa/bed.  You can see it half extended in one of the photos.

Bob

That's one mystery solved.  Thanks Bob!
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