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Author Topic: Selling your 2350 with dinette? Want to buy used.  (Read 11500 times)
sajohnson
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« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 02:57:12 am »

My Pal is 6'4" and he had a 2552 custom built for him having an 80" bed on the Driver's side. The Passenger side has the standard 73" bed for his wife. He does have to be careful when walking because of the overhead but he's accustomed to it now and doesn't bump his head. PC is really, really good at accommodating a customer needing customization.

I, like Dittmer, don't think you're going to find an older PC that will be comfortable for you.

Well that's discouraging.  I hope it's not true.  We'll just have to find a 2350 locally to check out.
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TomHanlon
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 08:11:37 am »

"If only PC made a 2350 on a Ford E350 diesel chassis..."

I don't think that Ford makes an E350 with a diesel in it. It would be very noisy in the cab. Their Pickups with the diesel are some what noisy.

SA, We live in western Howard county, not that far from you, i bet. If you are interested in seeing my 2350 before I trade it in at the end of next week or just want to talk about PCs, sent me a private message with a phone number I can reach you at.
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aimee
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« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2011, 02:56:54 pm »

Take a look at what this couple did.  http://phoenixusarv.com/albums/2551_models/index10.html  Look for the captioned "special double sofa"   Instead of twin beds in the rear, they did facing sofas, which fold out into beds that touch. One sofa is considerably longer than the other. Kind of the best of both worlds, maybe?

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TomHanlon
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« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2011, 03:18:49 pm »

Back in the 90's we had a Chinook motorhome. It had a dinette on one side and a jack knife sofa on the other. When you put them down they made a bed that went from side to side, much like this layout. It turned out to be hard to get into bed and even harder for the person in the front to get to the bathroom. After awhile I stopped opening the sofa and just slept on the seat. It was good practice for when I got in the dog house at home.  rolling on the floor  I don't think I would get any layout that stopped us from walking back to the bathroom at night. As we get older we tend to use the bathroom more in the middle of the night. Just my thinking but not right for everyone.
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« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2011, 03:25:52 pm »

[quote author=TomHanlon link=topic=696.msg4782#msg4782 date=132034792l  I don't think I would get any layout that stopped us from walking back to the bathroom at night. As we get older we tend to use the bathroom more in the middle of the night. Just my thinking but not right for everyone.
[/quote]

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Judi and George Nicholson
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sajohnson
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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 01:55:04 am »

I'm still confused about the comments regarding my height (6'2") -- that I will not be able to find a PC that is comfortable.

The PC brochure I have says the corner bed is 76"x50" and the height (in all models) is 6'4".

6'4" is a bit shorter than most class B+/C rigs, but still 2" of headroom. 

76" is actually 1 or 2" longer than the beds in most RVs.

What am I missing? 
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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2011, 08:17:59 am »

The advertised inside height, as can be expected, is floor to the ceiling - but the AC takes about 2" so from the height in that particular spot (believe me when I say you'll get used to that).

The rear bed dimension is really governed by the distance between bulkheads. But if you don't mind your feet hanging off into the aisle a bit (like mine did), you'll be OK. Of course you can sleep across the bed to get more room but it would pretty much rule out 2 sleeping in the same bed.

If you get a 2350 with sofabed in a slide, the bed folds out with just enough room for 2. However, as I move around a lot when sleeping, Peg slept on the sofabed, which required daily setup/takedown and a mattress topper for comfort (all a pita).

Our 2007 2350 was a great unit but we didn't want the hassle of making the corner and sofabed up every day.
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ragoodsp
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2011, 09:16:51 am »

S.A.J.:

I know you want to keep your potential coach as short as you can but I really think you should be looking at the 2552s that will give you 12" of "play room" with the bed lay out.  My wife likes to use to many pillows and it made the 68" single bed to short for her (she is 5'8") so she uses the 74" bed and does fine.  I am seriously looking at going from the 2551 to the 2552S for a variety of reasons but primarily so that I can get two beds that are atleast 74" long.  I have checked with Stuart at PC and he said "yes" it can be done with out much trouble and he has atleast 12" to play with, I am sure they would cut into the pantry in the slide or the towel closet in the bathroom.  As I know you have seen my posts on other forums I am not a big fan of the Sprinter chassis.  A PC on a Sprinter may handle great because the PC's is lower overall but I am telling you my 10' 2" 2009 Monaco Covina  (you appear to need the extra cieling clearance inside because of your size) on a Sprinter with its narrow track was very dangerous with the stock suspension and nearly over weight before adding any supplies. The Covina was engineered very well in that the center of gravity was reduced so much I could not get under the coach because of lack of clearance.  I would sure prefer to have a chassis that was not even close to max load (Ford E-450) vs's a chassis that was nearly over loaded before adding any supplies or people.  In a panic situation a fully loaded chassis does not handle like a 1/2 loaded chassis and safety must be your first priority.  Thanks
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sajohnson
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 03:10:34 am »

S.A.J.:

I know you want to keep your potential coach as short as you can but I really think you should be looking at the 2552s that will give you 12" of "play room" with the bed lay out.  My wife likes to use to many pillows and it made the 68" single bed to short for her (she is 5'8") so she uses the 74" bed and does fine.  I am seriously looking at going from the 2551 to the 2552S for a variety of reasons but primarily so that I can get two beds that are atleast 74" long.  I have checked with Stuart at PC and he said "yes" it can be done with out much trouble and he has atleast 12" to play with, I am sure they would cut into the pantry in the slide or the towel closet in the bathroom.  As I know you have seen my posts on other forums I am not a big fan of the Sprinter chassis.  A PC on a Sprinter may handle great because the PC's is lower overall but I am telling you my 10' 2" 2009 Monaco Covina  (you appear to need the extra cieling clearance inside because of your size) on a Sprinter with its narrow track was very dangerous with the stock suspension and nearly over weight before adding any supplies. The Covina was engineered very well in that the center of gravity was reduced so much I could not get under the coach because of lack of clearance.  I would sure prefer to have a chassis that was not even close to max load (Ford E-450) vs's a chassis that was nearly over loaded before adding any supplies or people.  In a panic situation a fully loaded chassis does not handle like a 1/2 loaded chassis and safety must be your first priority.  Thanks

All good points.  I understand what you're saying about too many pillows eating up valuable bed real estate.  If there is truly 76" between bulkheads then I'll be ok.

I really do want a rig that is as short as possible while still serving our needs.  <25' is good, <24' is even better.  Not sure about the 2552, but the 2551 is 26'5" long.  I know that's only a couple feet longer than our limit (and about 3 feet longer than a 2350), but we originally started out looking at class B RVs, so anything over ~22' seems long.  The shorter the coach is, the more maneuverable it is, and the less likely it is to drag the rear end.  One concern is just getting it into our garage.  We are on the side of a mountain and have a very limited amount of room in front of the garage.

I continue to go back and forth between the Ford and Sprinter chassis.  If they were the same price I'd go for the Sprinter.  DW and I don't need the cargo capacity of the Ford E350, but it would be nice to have the extra cushion.  Of course it's important not to overload a chassis, but if they are lightly loaded many chassis ride very rough.  A properly designed RV on any chassis should have adequate OCCC, but I have heard of some that are easily overloaded.  The PC specs give GVWR but not the weight of the rig itself so there's no way to determine OCCC.  One thing's for sure though, the E350 has almost 1,500 lbs more capacity than the Sprinter.  

I've heard a lot about the narrower track of the Sprinter.  All else being equal, it stands to reason that the Ford chassis would be more stable.  That said, if the Sprinter-based RVs were truly dangerous, I'd think we'd hear a lot of stories about wrecks, roll-overs, recalls, and eventually RVs would no longer be built on the Sprinter chassis.  That doesn't seem to be the case.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 03:12:06 am by sajohnson » Logged

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ragoodsp
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2011, 03:33:54 pm »

S.A.J.:

I am not sure that all members of the RV industry abide by  a "check and balance" system  that would throw any flags that something may of may not be safe for the consumer.  Over the years there have been many chassis's used with in the RV indsutry that did not perform well..Renault and VW come to mind immediately and how about the auto industry with Corvairs, Explorers, and Pintos to name just a few, none of those manfacturers came out and told consumers to not buy those cars when they new there were issues way before anything was in fact said.    I am not saying the Sprinter chassis will become a "cast out"  becasue it was un safe but I do think it is interesting how M-B keeps a very tight lid on what the RV industry can and can not do with their chassis's and I do think that would lead one to draw the conclusion that there are concerns about how the chassis performs when fully loaded, and in most cases in the world of RV's overloaded.  I would simply call Kermit Fisher or better yet Kyle Fisher his son who delivers PC coaches all over the country and get his opinion on the comparison between the Ford and Sprinter chassis's.  You owe it to yourself to drive both chassis's and draw your on opinions.  Having had 6 new coaches I can tell you not one of them was perfect, not one of them was without issues, and two of them (Monaco Class A's) had rear trailing arms that would break completely off and of course you would have no control over the coach, Monaco's quality control at it best.  Again, I am very impressed with how PC has evenly distributed the weight of their coaches both front to rear and side to side and placing the coach on a Ford E-450 with a CCC of over a ton after being fully loaded is what you want when you are doing 68 MPH and some pulls in front of you.  Just my two cents.  Thanks
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sajohnson
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2011, 04:48:59 pm »

S.A.J.:

I am not sure that all members of the RV industry abide by  a "check and balance" system  that would throw any flags that something may of may not be safe for the consumer.  Over the years there have been many chassis's used with in the RV indsutry that did not perform well..Renault and VW come to mind immediately and how about the auto industry with Corvairs, Explorers, and Pintos to name just a few, none of those manfacturers came out and told consumers to not buy those cars when they new there were issues way before anything was in fact said.    I am not saying the Sprinter chassis will become a "cast out"  becasue it was un safe but I do think it is interesting how M-B keeps a very tight lid on what the RV industry can and can not do with their chassis's and I do think that would lead one to draw the conclusion that there are concerns about how the chassis performs when fully loaded, and in most cases in the world of RV's overloaded.  I would simply call Kermit Fisher or better yet Kyle Fisher his son who delivers PC coaches all over the country and get his opinion on the comparison between the Ford and Sprinter chassis's.  You owe it to yourself to drive both chassis's and draw your on opinions.  Having had 6 new coaches I can tell you not one of them was perfect, not one of them was without issues, and two of them (Monaco Class A's) had rear trailing arms that would break completely off and of course you would have no control over the coach, Monaco's quality control at it best.  Again, I am very impressed with how PC has evenly distributed the weight of their coaches both front to rear and side to side and placing the coach on a Ford E-450 with a CCC of over a ton after being fully loaded is what you want when you are doing 68 MPH and some pulls in front of you.  Just my two cents.  Thanks

I wouldn't necessarily expect the RV mfrs to advertise the fact that a particular model/chassis is unsafe.  What I meant was that (as with the Corvair, Pinto, and Explorer you mentioned) if there were an unusual number of accidents we would hear about it.

I seriously doubt that MB would allow any RV mfr to do anything unsafe with their chassis because it would harm their reputation and hurt sales if they were rolling over left and right.

Regarding overloaded chassis, one thought that comes to mind is that some chassis mfrs may be more conservative that others when determining the GVWR.  I don't know that is the case, I'm saying it's possible.  It's possible that Ford or Mercedes has more of a safety cushion built in.  Another factor are electronic 'nannies' -- ABS, ESC, traction control, load sensing, etc.  It's possible that a chassis with a lower GVWR and ESC, etc, might perform as well or better when fully loaded than a chassis with a higher GVWR, partially loaded, but without ESC.

As I've said, I think both Ford and MB have their strong points but in order to really determine which one is 'better', we would need independent objective testing (like CR does with cars).  Without objective testing and data it's just an endless stream of subjective opinions.  In my reading I have come across many intelligent, knowledgeable people on both sides of the Ford v. Sprinter debate.  They all make good points and it isn't clear to me that one is obviously better than the other.
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NHWanderlust
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2011, 11:52:41 am »

  In my reading I have come across many intelligent, knowledgeable people on both sides of the Ford v. Sprinter debate.  They all make good points and it isn't clear to me that one is obviously better than the other.

DITTO
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ron.dittmer
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2011, 08:54:20 am »

Hey I just saw this on ebay.  Good reference material with good pictures.

Naples Florida
2006 2551
25,000 miles
Always Garaged when not in use
$39,900 with a "Make Offer" feature

I don't think it has 2 batteries with inverter.
The only thing I would likely change is replacing the tiny little dinette in the slideout with a couch or something else.
This is a fine example of how small the dinette in a slideout really is.
CLICK HERE to see it on eBay.

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Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
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Stored At Home In Our Heated Garage (Well-Lit & Warm Comfort In Winter)
ron.dittmer
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2011, 02:41:04 pm »

Hey sajohnson,

I Found A Short PC With Dinette-NO-Slideout Near You.  Read On.

Here is a very low priced 2000 Phoenix Cruiser in Greenbelt MD, maybe close to where you live.  Back then it was not called a 2350, but has a very similar floorplan, the biggest floorplan difference being the bathroom.  The bright side is the rear corner bed seems to have better access.  One interesting point is that the Ford roof was not cut.  This means the front cab is a little harder to enter in from the rear, but is very safe in a roll-over crash.  Also you have more front over-head storage.
  
Dinette with NO slideout
PC Model Year 2000
Ford-V10 Chassis Year 1999
78,500 Miles
Recent Tires
Current bid on Ebay is $9,900 with auction ending in 26 hours.

The differences that I can quickly see between this 2000 and my 2007 are as follows.

- no rear cap with LED lighting and integrated tire storage, rather a rear wall with seams in the corners
- smaller outdoor storage
- main entry door does not have the better sealing door with multi-pivoting hinges farther apart
- single coach battery with NO inverter
- no sanicon system, rather a straight forward conventional sewage dumping system
- a wet bath, meaning you take a shower in the entire bathroom
- formica counters instead of corian
- no flat panel TV, the cabinetry is made for an older type CRT TV
- stove is not flush mounted with covers, which I appreciate when doing dishes

If you get this one for $10k to $15k, all the differences could easiliy be overlooked.
 
Click Here To See It On Ebay



« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 05:49:21 pm by ron.dittmer » Logged

Ron Dittmer (wife Irene) 2007 Model 2350 Without A Slideout
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2011, 08:49:16 am »

sajohnson,

Did you buy it?  It sold for only $11,100.

Ron
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Our Rig Is Available For Viewing Any Time Of Year In Dundee, IL
Stored At Home In Our Heated Garage (Well-Lit & Warm Comfort In Winter)
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