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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: smoline on December 05, 2013, 12:53:56 pm

Title: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: smoline on December 05, 2013, 12:53:56 pm
We have a 2012 2350 on a Ford E350 frame. We're thinking of trading in our Jeep Wrangler (our toad) for a new Grand Cherokee. The published weight for the Grand Cherokee is ~4800 pounds. I would be grateful for any advice on whether or not the PC will/can/should tow a Grand Cherokee or not.

Thanks!

Steve
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: ragoodsp on December 05, 2013, 01:41:17 pm
For what it is worth I have the 3100 PC that comes in at just over 12,000 lbs., obviously alot more weight compared to the 2350 but 3100 is on the E-450 vs's your E-350.  I pull a Liberty diesel that tips the scales at  4,453 lbs when loaded with fuel,  bikes on the back, etc.   I am well under the maximum weight rating  (GVWR) of the vehicle but getting close to the hitch rating of 5000 lbs.   i utilize a Roadmaster towing system and the combined rig is OK.  i would not go as far as others who say "they do not know the toad is on there"  I find the rig works much, much harder on hills, the MPG goes down by over 2 MPG's, the tow mode kicks in constantly, the fun of driving the rig is diminished considerably in my mind.   I have a 2014 Grand Cherokee Limited and I would not begin to consider  towing it to be honest, just way to heavy, very close to 5,000 when loaded despite what the stats might say.  i look forward to what others might have to say on this subject.   Thanks
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: Denny & Barb on December 05, 2013, 02:51:08 pm
I don't tow anything as of yet, but maybe someday I will, so I have a maybe dumb question to ask. Why tow a large 4500 vehicle?  I would think something to run for milk and sightseeing could be nicely handled by something much lighter.

Denny
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: Barry-Sue on December 05, 2013, 03:22:19 pm
Steve

The main limiting factor with the factory setup is the rating of the hitch ( 5,000 pounds).  It would not take much to exceed that limit.   Once that limit is exceeded there will be additional problems if something goes wrong.  Replacing the hitch could increase the 5,000 pound limit.

Here is a link to a post covering the same subject.

http://www.phoenixusarv.com/community/index.php/topic,1602.0.html

Barry
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: ragoodsp on December 05, 2013, 04:00:32 pm
I would be concerned about beefing up the hitch and what that extra towable weight would do as it gets transferred down the rest of the frame.  I would venture a guess that Ford and PC and other manafacturers have engineered the E-450 to be max'ed out  at the 5000 lb mark.  A lighter toad is  a great idea but some have to go with what is in the garage and how easy jeep's can be towed make them very popular.  Can not wait for a new Mini Wrangler to come out in two years!
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: TomHanlon on December 05, 2013, 04:13:19 pm
My 2014 GC summit may have started life at 4800 lbs but with all the options added to it, it is somewhere around 5500 lbs. That is way to heavy to tow with a PC. We currently tow a 2004 Liberty at weights about 4800 lbs and it is very noticeable and kills my MPG. My door frame says 6500 GVRW with a max payload of 1000 lbs.

Have you looked at the new 2014 Jeep Cherokee, it is smaller, lighter and can be towed four down.
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: 2 Frazzled on December 06, 2013, 09:19:07 am
We tow a manual all-wheel drive 2014 Subaru Forester four down. All we have to do is turn the key to accessory, put her in neutral, and take off the emergency brake (and flip a switch on our SMI brake assist). I think the base weight is around 3500 lbs and we are probably a bit over 4000 lbs with the bikes, car top carrier and other gear for our full time journey. It has ample space for 4-5 passengers and decent cargo space (lots if you put the back seat down). It gets decent gas mileage for our run about trips and can handle "off road" conditions (unlike the Honda CRV that says it is not meant to be driven off pavement). This is not to say it is for rugged off roading like the Jeep may be but it handles the campground roads and most of the back country roads we might be driving on.
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: Ron Dittmer on December 06, 2013, 04:01:43 pm
Steve smoline,

I don't see a problem towing a 4800 pound vehicle with a PC2350/E350-V10.  Just don't use the tow vehicle to store heavy items.

Any concern involves the limit of the 5000 pound hitch on the motor home, not the Ford chassis.  The E350/V10 will handle the job nicely.  We tow a 4300 pound Jeep Liberty which our 2007 PC-2350 E350/V10 motor home handles it just fine.  The gas mileage is right at a one mpg loss.  But no worries because at your destinations, you'll be saving the fuel driving the tow vehicle instead of the motor home.  The feel towing versus not towing is very noticable when accelerating but not once at a steady speed.

I can't imagine an extra 500 pounds more than we tow, making a noticable difference.

Tom, are you sure you have your weight right on your 2004 Liberty?  Is it a diesel?  Maybe that's where the extra weight comes in.  Our 2006 Liberty v6 gas 4x4 states 4300 pounds all over the internet.
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: TomHanlon on December 06, 2013, 04:49:51 pm
Tom, are you sure you have your weight right on your 2004 Liberty?  Is it a diesel?  Maybe that's where the extra weight comes in.  Our 2006 Liberty v6 gas 4x4 states 4300 pounds all over the internet.

Ron you are correct. The door sticker says 2541 GVRW. I don't know where I got the 4300 from.
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: Ron Dittmer on December 06, 2013, 05:02:15 pm
Tom,

I was referring to "curb weight", not weight rating.  I read that curb weight on the 1st gen Liberty (2002-2007) is 4300 pounds for the 4x4 with the 3.7L-gas engine.  The 4x2 weighs less at around 2800 pounds, the diesel weighs more.
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: TomHanlon on December 06, 2013, 05:39:41 pm
That be us, 4300 lbs.
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: smoline on December 07, 2013, 07:39:08 am
Thanks everyone for your responses. Much appreciated.

Steve
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: Doneworking on December 07, 2013, 09:14:18 am
Interesting discussion because I have been thinking about whether to tow and what to tow.   We have a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Hemi and it is just to heavy to tow.   No question about that in my mind.   We want somethinig we can use on rough National Forest roads and in the backcountry, so a Jeep Wrangler probably would work best.   I don't know about the rest of the country, but they are REAL proud of those around here (I am talking about used).   I want one pre 2006 so I can get the old straight six engine.   Literally and truly, I can buy a Liberty for about half what a Wrangler costs in the early 2000s models.   I was pretty shocked when I discovered this fact.   I have driven Cherokees and Grand Cherokees for five vehicles over twenty something years and I just had never paid attention to Wrangler prices.   

Also, a lot of the Wranglers have really been treated harshly, compromised and customized.   I am trying to convince my wife she would appear 20 years younger driving a Wrangler than her car.  She ain't buying it.   :'(
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: TomHanlon on December 07, 2013, 11:53:49 am
A friend of mine has a two door wrangler. He never gets to drive when the four of us want to go some where, like out to dinner. Try getting into the back seat of a wrangler before you buy. :-[
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: Ron Dittmer on December 07, 2013, 12:56:54 pm
Back in 2008, my wife was dead set on getting a Wrangler for her every day use vehicle because "They Looked Cute".  We turned 50 that year and I knew better than to consider one.  But I had to do diligence and did some cost research.  I found used ones to be extremely expensive, much smarter to buy a new one instead.  So I took my wife to a dealer and thank goodness her test drive and tire kicking experience had her reconsidering.  While at the dealer she noticed a couple 1st generation Libertys on the lot.  After test driving & tire kicking a 1st gen Liberty (2nd gen was ugly to her) she concluded "It is just as cute, and it works for her too".  It was a month or so later, we bought our 2006 Liberty.  She was dead set on one with the raw plastic fenders which is the base model.  I was able to find one all decked out with alloys, options & sunroof, low miles, and at a bargain price.  It lacked only leather which was an ongoing disappointment, but I took care of that last Christmas, replacing her cloth skins with new leather ones.

Happy Wife is Happy Life.  She is actually very easy to please.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8532325801_8345f38920_c.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8228/8533437354_50a13335a2_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: bobander on December 07, 2013, 03:19:20 pm
I agree, a Jeep Wrangler is certainly not for everyone; however, we have a 2003, bought new and towed about 40,000 miles - 25,000 behind the PC.  We live in the Sierra Nevada in northern California and have access to great off road trails.  I have a car lift in my garage and have modified the Jeep for better off road use (an ongoing project), but not too extreme so that it still tows great and drives the highways reasonably comfortably - a compromise.  We go to Moab a lot and do some great off road trips in that area as well as search out 4x4 trails wherever we go.  That is part of the fun of RVing for us, and we are 66 years old.

Having said that, the Wrangler is not the most comfortable for normal highway use and the backseat is really for kids only.  We don't even have the back seat in when we travel, more room for gear and we take a lot of recovery gear with us when we take off on the 4x4 trails by ourselves.  No, we can't take another couple with us, but we don't travel with anyone else and we prefer to do our own thing.  We put the backseat in when the grandkids visit at home, they love going "Jeepin" in the Sierra Nevada.

So, for us the Wrangler is the best option, comfortable enough for us on the highway and easy to get around town, but still lets us explore the back country and very easy to tow.

Bob

Imogene Pass between Ouray and Telluride, CO.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b484/bobander1/10c24e0f-1227-43a2-a3c4-fc585f1c786d_zpsab9f39a5.jpg)
White Rim Trail, Canyonlands Nat'l Park
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b484/bobander1/785a74f4-e61b-4f46-9f3a-5737d9ded2ca_zps9d0d0d0f.jpg)

(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b484/bobander1/e12eb680-48e2-4d76-8c5a-842352cce5aa_zpsb7682e99.jpg)


Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: ragoodsp on December 08, 2013, 02:27:26 pm
The 2006 jeep Liberty CRD (diesel) is at least 300 lbs heavier comapred to the gas V-6.   The V M Moturi I-4 is heavy and mid 2005 Jeep strated puting a much larger transmission in the CRD's becuase the torque was to much for the stock transmission so therefore the extra weight compared to ges version.  it was my understanding the gas vehicles were around 4000 with the CRD's tipping the scales at 4300.  I guess I am the exception....I tow alot but just do not enjoy doing it. 
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: Doneworking on December 08, 2013, 07:17:13 pm
Bobander, you are exactly in line with what we are thinking.  We want to do some more offroad exploration.   We spend most of our rving time boondocking in some really great places and are hikers.  At seventy, I would like to explore more and hike less.   ;)

Your picture near Ouray is a perfect example of why we are looking at a Wrangler.  Our tent days are over so we might as well ride as hike, at least part of the time.  The back seat?  Well, that is for gear and Sally Ann the Wonder Dog.  

Doneworking
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: TomHanlon on December 09, 2013, 07:46:58 am
Great Pictures Bob. Looks like fun. Not much like that here on the east coast. Like you say, it all depends on what you want to use your Jeep for. That is why they make some many different models. We have both my Grand Cherokee and my wife's Liberty for different reasons. She has started looking at the New 2014 Cherokee and I must say it is some Jeep. I have looked at the Utube on how it performs, even for your kind of off roading. It "might" even be better at it than the wrangler.  :lol  I just said that because I know how my buddy reacts when I tell him things like that about his baby.
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: ragoodsp on December 09, 2013, 10:40:34 am
For the record....Yahoo Auto lists the curb weight of the 2006 Jeep Liberty Sport 4X4 (gas) with AT at 4,011 lbs, (unlaiden) and the CRD Sport (diesel) at 4,144 lbs (unlaiden).  Load both up with fuel, etc and you would push 4500 lbs for sure. 
Title: Re: Tow a Grand Cherokee with a PC 2350 (Ford)?
Post by: bobander on December 09, 2013, 02:08:56 pm
Great Pictures Bob. Looks like fun. Not much like that here on the east coast. Like you say, it all depends on what you want to use your Jeep for. That is why they make some many different models. We have both my Grand Cherokee and my wife's Liberty for different reasons. She has started looking at the New 2014 Cherokee and I must say it is some Jeep. I have looked at the Utube on how it performs, even for your kind of off roading. It "might" even be better at it than the wrangler.  :lol  I just said that because I know how my buddy reacts when I tell him things like that about his baby.

I know where your buddy is coming from.  When I get into discussions with other Jeepers about what mods they have made and how capable our Jeeps are, I have to be careful not to get caught up in the chest pounding.  As you said, there are a lot of models of Jeeps and degrees of aftermarket modifications available, just depend on what you want to do with it.  My Jeep is a good compromise for our needs regarding street driveability and trail capability.  For me, the Jeep project is a fun hobby, sometimes I have to tell my wife that the next mod is not because we need it, I just want it.   ;)