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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: mhoecker on December 23, 2017, 03:20:59 pm

Title: 2018 owners here?
Post by: mhoecker on December 23, 2017, 03:20:59 pm
Iíve been looking and donít see many members here who own a 2018 PC.  I have used the search feature and maybe I need to use a more sophisticated search string.  I would really like to touch base with any 2018 owners to check on their experiences with delivery and impressions of their rigs so far. Thanks in advance!

Madonna
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jwg1199 on December 23, 2017, 07:41:38 pm
Hi Madonna, we picked up our 2018 PC 2552 the end of October. PC calls it a 2018 but the Ford Chassis is a 2017. We are happy with the coach although we only stayed in it for 8 days 4 of which were in Elkhart testing the coach and 4 days driving back to California. We downsized from a 42ft pusher so my wife says it will be an adjustment. Although after the drive home she seems to be happy with the decision. We leave Jan 2 for a 6 to 8 month trip which will be the true test.

We did have some minor issues which were fixed at the factory no problem. I feel they need  to work on their pre delivery inspection as they could have or should have caught our issues. These included a ding in the paint on the door frame, scratch on slide out frame inside, flush valve leak and Safe T Steer which was out of adjustment. In the big scheme of things these were not a big deal but someone should be assigned to go over the coach and maybe catch these things before the buyer does.

I do highly recommend PC as for the quality, cost and willingness to do custom requests. You will not find anyone else to do what they do. We looked. Hope that helps
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: mhoecker on December 23, 2017, 07:54:48 pm
Thank you for you input.  Did you stay the night at the factory or go to a local campground.?How long did it take them to resolve your issues?  Any resistance to customization requests?  Finally, is there anything you would have done differently?  Thanks for your time!
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jatrax on December 23, 2017, 08:05:13 pm
Hi Madonna,
A search for 2018 shows a couple I think have the 2018 model.  But remember Phoenix only turns out about 100 coaches per year.  So there may not be too many 2018's out there yet, and not everyone joins the forum either.

I have a 2017 model, picked up in March 2017.  I would be glad to help if I can but cannot answer anything about the 2018 model.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?solor
Post by: jwg1199 on December 23, 2017, 08:26:30 pm
Hi again Madonna, we stayed at Elkhart campground highly recommend. It rained steady for the first two days so not much testing of outside things of the coach. However we had no leaks so it worked out lol. The ding in paint had to be taken back to the paint shop so that took a few hours. The other issues took maybe ten minutes plus a test drive. After owning a big pusher (used) we had LOTS of issues with it so we were not that upset with these minor issues.

Things I'd change.  Shelves over the beds for phones, Ipads. We did put ac/dc plugs. A dedicated  solar monitor like Bogart 2030. I'd see if they could put a double recliner instead of the pullout bed/recliner its a pain to pullout and use as a recliner. We will never need an extra bed.

Make sure to put all the custom work in writing with very specifics on what, where you want changes. Then there are not misunderstandings. Ours were minor and worked out but not as I envisioned.

Merry Christmas!

John
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: No on December 26, 2017, 09:11:58 am
Madonna,

We have a 2552 on order so I can report on the delivery in about 6-7 weeks if all goes well! This forum has been very helpful in deciding what options/additions to include. As John mentioned, all the specifics are on the build sheet that Earl sent and I signed. We plan on spending the first night at the factory to turn every switch on and off, run every system including the gray & black water tanks while still pristine, open every drawer and door, climb on the roof and crawl underneath. I plan on taking a tool kit to include flashlight, inspection mirror, tire pressure gauge, multi-meter, thermometer, and of course a bottle of champaigne!

Steve

Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Free2RV on December 26, 2017, 09:48:58 am
Did you stay the night at the factory or go to a local campground.?
The Elkhart Campground is only a few miles from Phoenix. It's nice and has plenty of sites.
http://elkhartcampground.com
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: TomHanlon on December 26, 2017, 10:29:40 am
The water at the factory used to be really bad. So bad that back in 2011 they would not put it in any of the new campers. I went into the bathroom and saw the rust in the sinks. I was glad they did not put that water in my tank.

Elkhart campground is just a few miles away and is nice but close to the interstate. Just a few miles farther (about 20 minute drive from the factory) is Shipshewana south. We liked it better than Elkhart. It is very near the armish restaurants and shopping. If it were me again, I would go to a full hookup camp site and test everything including dumping. On the last PC I skipped this due to the weather and drove all the way down to Indianapolis to camp the first night. I forgot to check the jacks at the factory only to find out they missed installing them. The work sheet was folded in half and they were in the fold. I had to drive back to the factory the next morning. They had me go directly to the HWH installer before going to the factory. They covered my gas and lunch. Very nice of them.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: No on December 26, 2017, 02:59:33 pm
The water at the factory used to be really bad. So bad that back in 2011

I hope it has improved in 6 years! but good to know. A campground would be preferred over the PC parking lot but I would assume most are going to be closed in February.

Steve
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jatrax on December 26, 2017, 03:36:00 pm
Water was still rusty when we were there last year.  But one tank is not going to make much of a difference.  Just fill with good water at your next stop.  We have very rusty water here at home as well and I avoid using it in the RV when possible but I don't hesitate to use if I have to.  Just flush through with good water when I can.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: swiftboot on December 26, 2017, 08:22:53 pm
Just use a good filter if filling at factory.  I have rusty well water at my home and have an excellent filter at pump, but still use an additional in-line filter when filling the cruiser tank.  Being a Florida boy, it hard for me to visualize taking delivery in February in Indiana ie. Testing the a/c would be brutal. ;)

Larry
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Denny & Barb on December 26, 2017, 09:18:32 pm
When we picked up our 2012, same issues.  No Final Inspection.   So same problem as what we had. Most major was "Check Engine Light" on the motor. Other issues, we took care of ourselves later.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: 2 Frazzled on December 27, 2017, 07:42:14 am
I wondered about February campgrounds and checked a few we used there (KOA & Eby's Pines - both closed until April) then checked the Indiana map on allstays.com. The RV Museum was listed and had this list http://rvmhhalloffame.org/templates/overnightcamping.cfm - it could be worth checking out.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: No on December 27, 2017, 09:17:01 am
Thanks John! I will check the list for availability as we get closer to a delivery date.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Joseph on December 27, 2017, 07:39:27 pm
Jag, 42ft to 28. What a change. I’d have no
desire for a 42footer but I do like those around 32/34 foot.

I’m betting you miss the ride of that 42footer and the quiet of the pusher diesel as well.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?solor
Post by: donc13 on December 28, 2017, 11:45:41 am
Hi again Madonna, we stayed at Elkhart campground highly recommend. It rained steady for the first two days so not much testing of outside things of the coach. However we had no leaks so it worked out lol. The ding in paint had to be taken back to the paint shop so that took a few hours. The other issues took maybe ten minutes plus a test drive. After owning a big pusher (used) we had LOTS of issues with it so we were not that upset with these minor issues.

Things I'd change.  Shelves over the beds for phones, Ipads. We did put ac/dc plugs. A dedicated  solar monitor like Bogart 2030. I'd see if they could put a double recliner instead of the pullout bed/recliner its a pain to pullout and use as a recliner. We will never need an extra bed.

Make sure to put all the custom work in writing with very specifics on what, where you want changes. Then there are not misunderstandings. Ours were minor and worked out but not as I envisioned.

Merry Christmas!

John

They must have changed the sofa, on our 2015, 2551 each side reclines separately and does so electrically.  The only time you needed to pull out the bottom piece (very easy to do) was to make the sofa into a bed.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jatrax on December 28, 2017, 12:05:47 pm
Quote
I'd see if they could put a double recliner instead of the pullout bed/recliner its a pain to pullout and use as a recliner.
Quote
They must have changed the sofa, on our 2015, 2551 each side reclines separately and does so electrically.

No it is the same.  But I agree with it being a pain to use as a recliner.  Defining recliner as has having a foot rest that comes up when you recline, which is what I expected.  The recliner/bed in our 2552 is nice as a bed and as a sofa.  But when I want a recliner I want the foot rest and I don't want to have to crawl on the floor to find the latch and pull out the foot rest.

So I agree with @jwg1199, I would rather have a pair of nice recliners and skip the pull out bed. 
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Funseekers on December 29, 2017, 10:52:25 pm
Iíve been looking and donít see many members here who own a 2018 PC.  I have used the search feature and maybe I need to use a more sophisticated search string.  I would really like to touch base with any 2018 owners to check on their experiences with delivery and impressions of their rigs so far. Thanks in advance!

Madonna
Hello, we took delivery at the end of September for our 2018 pc 2100 and regret not spending more time at the factory....the day of pickup they were doing other deliveries, taking trades and selling rigs.  We were experienced RVers and felt camping at Elkhart would reveal any major problems.  While most issues were minor, it was clear that the PDI was perfunctionary at best.  Heading back to California, the arm rest of the sofa detached itself, one of the rollers of the sofa came loose and left a large scratch on the wood floor, the shower rail wasn't caulked so water was running onto the floor, the water pump wasn't secured to the floor and almost jumped out of it's bracket, light in bathroom kept shorting out due to loose wire, and the Sani Con hose was missing brackets.  The Ford chassis had no A/C or heat...so yeah, you might want to spend as much time as you possibly can at the factory and assume no PDI was performed.
Having wrote all this, we are pleased with our decision to purchase our unit for the floor plan, width and manuverability and drivability.  The factory is very responsive with warranty issues making every claim effortless....congrats!
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: mhoecker on December 29, 2017, 10:59:16 pm
YIKES!  Poor workmanship on top of no PDI.  I sure hope we don't get a lemon.  We aren't the handy sort.  We figured we would stay at the factory for two days if they will let us then go nearby to camp for another two days.  We will have a spring pickup, so John will be able to crawl on top and underneath of the whole rig.  I hope he is able to catch any problems!
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jatrax on December 29, 2017, 11:48:59 pm
Sadly, one of the (few) disappointments we had at pickup was a similar story.  Lots of little things, and a couple of really big things, that should have been caught at PDI.  I guess we should consider that the DEALER is supposed to do the PDI and take the cost of that out of their profit.  I understand when LTV allowed pickup at the factory they charged the customer extra for performing the PDI at the factory instead of at the dealer.

I cannot say I like the situation, but in Phoenix's case we are buying 'factory direct' and need to do our own PDI.  Hopefully this will change in the future as the new owners learn the ropes and hear the complaints.

But in the mean time anyone picking up a new rig should expect to examine every single item with a fine tooth comb.  Nothing should be expected to work or even be installed without verification.

Due to time constraints we were able to stay only one night at the Elkhart fairground RV park, but I wish it could have been at least two or three.  We put a tablet on the counter and every time we found an issue we wrote it down.  When we pulled back into the factory the next morning we handed our list to Bobby and the guys and they jumped right on it.  They had everything on the list done in a couple hours.  So they are amazingly responsive to getting issues fixed.  But I wish they would spend a little more time fixing those before the customer picks up.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Funseekers on December 30, 2017, 09:59:37 pm
Sadly, one of the (few) disappointments we had at pickup was a similar story.  Lots of little things, and a couple of really big things, that should have been caught at PDI.  I guess we should consider that the DEALER is supposed to do the PDI and take the cost of that out of their profit.  I understand when LTV allowed pickup at the factory they charged the customer extra for performing the PDI at the factory instead of at the dealer.

I cannot say I like the situation, but in Phoenix's case we are buying 'factory direct' and need to do our own PDI.  Hopefully this will change in the future as the new owners learn the ropes and hear the complaints.

But in the mean time anyone picking up a new rig should expect to examine every single item with a fine tooth comb.  Nothing should be expected to work or even be installed without verification.

Due to time constraints we were able to stay only one night at the Elkhart fairground RV park, but I wish it could have been at least two or three.  We put a tablet on the counter and every time we found an issue we wrote it down.  When we pulled back into the factory the next morning we handed our list to Bobby and the guys and they jumped right on it.  They had everything on the list done in a couple hours.  So they are amazingly responsive to getting issues fixed.  But I wish they would spend a little more time fixing those before the customer picks up.

Jatrax
To your excellent point regarding the PDI, we feel you shouldn't have to sacrifice PDI because you buy factory direct....especially obvious quality control issues; particularly in our case when there was extensive and definitive check off sheets supplied by Phoenix to us that we're either not initialed nor in some cases missing altogether.  We hope any new owners taking delivery will be extremely thorough when taking delivery of their new PC.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Joseph on December 31, 2017, 11:42:38 am
Man this kind of stuff is unacceptable! Remember the days before American auto makers had foreign competition? You bought a new GM , Chrysler or Ford product and they gave you a note pad and pencil to make your list of things that you find wrong. After a few weeks when you think youíve found everything you bring it back for warranty work. This isnít the 60ís anymore and this lack of quality control is inexcusable.  They should have already been gone thru and any squaks fixed.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Two Hams in a Can on December 31, 2017, 12:27:11 pm
All this is why out of the four RVs we've owned, only one was new...a Casita TT which, like Phoenix sells only factory direct.  We had only two factory defects to take care of, but unknown to us, Casita sells their trailers with many necessary mods not part of the deal.  We found out after taking possession that the molded bathroom recessed shelves had no retaining bar over the front; the screen door had no grab bar; etc.  We have carefully purchased our three pre-owned RVs with careful research, cautious restraint and some luck.  We have had to put money into some repairs and voluntary  upgrades, but most of it was foreseen and planned for.  Fawkes was such a purchase.   :)(:
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: biglegmax on January 01, 2018, 01:46:56 am
Hi all,

The last few posts about quality control, PDI are hitting close to home for us. Our coach is very close to being finished after eight months.

Owning businesses for over forty years I find it some what amusing at the naivety displayed regarding getting what you pay for, quality control, or what ever you want to call it.
PC has, in my mind, done the math. They have discovered its cost effective to not worry about doing that perfect job, a small percentage will complain, they will make it right. I suspect that the emotional attachment to buying something like a motorhome would outweigh the majority to complain of problems. Cost effective for PC. Lets face it, you could give an average sixteen year old a check list, some training, and have them do an acceptable final inspection, any problems, fix them, before its called complete.
We as consumers used to allow this, or had no options(Joseph, re 60ís autoís great example). This is a consumer problem, step up to the plate as a consumer and insist you get what you were told you were going to get and what you paid for! Expect it, insist on it. Would it be acceptable to you to buy a gallon of milk,either from a grocery store, or dairy farmer(factory), get it home and find you only got three quarts? Funny thing is most people would not go back to the store to get their money back!!!

Jatrax  "Nothing should be expected to work or even be installed without verificationĒ . Is this really what should happen when you are spending $100k+ I hope not. Is this where we are these days?

The last five years have been a boom for most businesses, RVís huge. If you have been around long enough you understand the economy will change and swing the other way.
The inter web is leveling the playing field quickly, I would think any new business owner would be paying close attention, this is not the 60ísÖ only the best innovater and savvy will survive.
Doug
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jatrax on January 01, 2018, 02:22:24 pm
@biglegmax while I do not really disagree with your post in principle things are not quite that cut & dried.  A motorhome is different than a lot of purchases both in the very large cost and in the complexity of the purchase.  I compare it more to an aircraft or boat rather than a gallon of milk or even an automobile.  Many things look and work just fine until you shake them down the road at 60mph for several 100 miles.  No factory inspection is ever going to catch those items.

Some of the things on a PDI cannot be checked out until the customer takes delivery and the customer should be involved in that PDI so they understand how things work.  In many cases final fit and adjustment is to the customer taste.

The RV industry as a whole has a horrible reputation for workmanship.  I've been to RV shows where cabinets were falling apart, doors misaligned, windows would not open and so on.  And those items were on the display model that the salesperson was bragging up the quality on.  We bought from Phoenix because of all the coaches we looked at I felt the workmanship was the best we had seen.  But that certainly does not mean they are perfect.

My comment about checking everything simply means that you as the customer must be part of the PDI process.  Whether this is right or wrong is immaterial, it is the way it is right now.  Had I been more experienced when we picked up our coach 90% of the issues would have been fixed before we pulled off the lot.  Instead my inexperience and a time crunch meant we drove off with items that were not checked and had to be fixed later.

Should Phoenix have a more thorough Quality Control procedure?  Yes, absoultely.  And I know the new owners are aware of this issue.  Is that going to send every rig out the door perfect?  No.  Not possible unless they do as aircraft companies do and spent weeks test flying a bird before it is released to the customer. 

The best we can do right now as a customer is verify and inspect every item before driving away from Elkhart.  As many, many customers have noted Phoenix goes above and beyond to make the customer happy and fix any issues.  But the customer MUST be a part of that process.

When discussing some of my issues with Kermit he asked "Do you like the coach?"  I said yes but there are some things that need fixed.  And he said "then we are fine, as long as you are happy with the coach we can fix anything else."
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Ron Dittmer on January 01, 2018, 07:35:22 pm
Long ago when Irene and I were youngsters at age 25, married 5 years and just became new parents, we bought our first motor home, a brand new 1984 Toyota Mirage HERE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157621472936441) for $12,255.  It was about the same money as a large new 4 door Oldsmobile we had our eye on at that time.  It had no appliances of any kind.  The sink water supply was a 2.5 gallon water jug, had a hand pump, and it drained out on the street.  It had a built-in ice box so no fridge, no bathroom so no tanks, no furnace & no stove so no propane, no a/c, and no generator.  Even the Toyota cab was stripped with a manual transmission, no a/c, no radio, and no power steering .  I remember back in the fall of 1983, I assumed the quality of a motor home was going to be the same as any other vehicle.  My eyes were wide open upon delivery, and I dealt with the lack of quality for the 24 years we owned it.  By the time I sold it, it was a different motor home.

Fast forward 24 years later, we took delivery of our new 2007 Phoenix Cruiser.  I anticipated similar disappointments x100 given all the intracacies and on-board systems of a self-contained rig.  We drove to the factory to get our PC.  Two things Phoenix did for us when we were there.  1) We had them shorten the tail pipe extension.  2) There was a little silver paint over-spray on the left-front tire which they quickly cleaned off for us.  We did not test anything.  After a walk-around review, we just drove our PC home 3 hours away.  Back home, I recall doing the following things myself to make things right.

- tighten up some latches & knobs and such
- straighten a crooked duplex outlet
- vacuumed all the nooks and crannies of construction dust & small debris

My inspection at home was a different experience than that of the Mirage.  Simply stated, I was impressed.  Things fit right, were finished right, were caulked cleanly, and all systems tested to work fine (or so I thought, read on).

A few months later, during our first major trip camping out west at 10,000 foot elevation at dusk the temp dropped quickly.  I forgot to test the furnace and it did NOT work.  In desperation, I removed the exterior access cover to find a switch inside.  I flipped it and the furnace worked, so all was well.

I have done a lot of things to our PC since we bought it.  I feel only one thing I did corrected a design problem which was adding a battery compartment splash shield seen HERE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157622075091526).  Every other change I made was done to improve our RV experience.  You who own PCs with the battery compartment adjacent to the rear axle, did Phoenix install a splash shield for your battery compartment?  I am curious if they addressed the problem.

We had a great experience with regard to the quality of our PC.  That was in May of 2007, not in January 2018.  Maybe things have changed some since back then, but then again...maybe not.  Anything that can be remedied in a few hours by PC experienced staff is not detrimental to me.  It's the things that can't ever be fixed right that are detrimental, like general poor workmanship where things are designed to fit or align right, but just don't and can never be corrected properly.

Back around 2008, I recall people on a general RV forum complaining that sun light beamed inside their brand new rig's hanging kitchen cabinets where the wall met the ceiling.  The RV dealer resolved the problem with caulk.  In my opinion, it's so many different horror stories like that one example that determines quality where it really counts.  Not a few hour visit to the PC factory to have Kermit's team now under new ownership, adjust or tighten up things to be made right.

Still it would be nice if Phoenix would fill the hot water tank and a few extra gallons in the fresh water tank and test the various systems before the new owner shows up.  Unfortunately for Phoenix, they would also need to drain everything and clean it all up 100% to look like brand new again.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: ron-n-toni on January 02, 2018, 09:14:49 am
We picked up our 2017 2552 in late August, 2017. We traded in our 2016 2351 so just parked the two along side each other and spent several hours swapping "stuff".  Earl was busy so Kyle did the check out. Because we owned one we didn't need much help. We had the factory send the 2552 out for alignment. It did not handle very well on the way home. I had a local shop do it over and now handles very well. So don't bother. Have a good local shop do your alignment. Enroute home, we heard a vibration on acceleration which turned out to be the heat shield over the exhaust. Two self tapping screws fixed it.  The funny part: We we got home, I was looking it over and was looking at the back end. Something just didn't look right. Looked and looked. Ah hah. The drag wheels were missing. Enroute home from Sisters, we stopped at the factory and had the new style slide seals installed even tho we didn't have a leak, drag wheels installed and two latches installed on the pantry door to keep it from popping open while underway. Bob gave me six extra latche's "in case". And that's it on problems. 
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: dshaffer on January 03, 2018, 04:04:06 pm
I need to chime in on the quality control, because when we picked up our RV at the end of last June there was a long list of things that I feel should have been caught and corrected before we arrived to pickup and inspect our 2910T. I hope the new owners are monitoring this forum and do something about the quality control for future customers. I'm still don't understand how most of the workmanship on the RV can be so good, and on that same RV there are many examples of very poor workmanship; and no one caught it and corrected it!
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Joseph on January 03, 2018, 06:49:12 pm
Jatrax, comparible o the aircraft industry? Really? I spent over 30 years tied to the aircraft industry and can tell you they have many levels of quality control. Entire departments where thatís their only job.  As an example the F15 built in St Luis on its very first flight the test pilot begins with a Viking take off. Every Squak is addressed before that first flight. Sheeesh, we could only wish the rv industry had even one person focused on quality. This isnít new to PC either. Ron lost his Macerator pump to a screw in the system. In the aircraft industry thatís called FOD. Every screw has to be accounted for, every tool along the way.

Notice how Ford turned itself around after Allan Mullay took over as CEO, previously the CEO of commercial aircraft division for Boeing.

Quality needs to be demanded or take your money elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jatrax on January 03, 2018, 07:22:17 pm
Quote
Quality needs to be demanded or take your money elsewhere.
While agree, where would you like us to take our money?

LTV, supposedly one of the top notch builders has a Facebook page that is a constant stream of complaints.  LTV was our first choice and after seeing all the complaints really glad we changed our minds.  We looked at a good number of builders before choosing Phoenix, and one of the reasons chose them was the relatively higher level of workmanship. 

Quote
comparable to the aircraft industry? Really? I spent over 30 years tied to the aircraft industry and can tell you they have many levels of quality control
Sure why not?  My point was simply that without extensive testing, ON THE ROAD,  QC is not going to catch everything.  And on road testing (or live in testing) is not going to happen.

However, I think there is a big difference between items that fail or shake loose after a few miles down the road (which will not be caught by QC) and items like missing door latches, or options ordered and not installed, which should be.  Those items should be caught by QC and it should not be that hard to have a QC inspection with a copy of the build list to make sure everything ordered was actually installed and all doors/windows/latches/switches/receptacles/appliances actually work.  That might take 2 or 3 hours labor.  I have to think that it takes longer than that to fix things when the rig is brought back in by the customer who is now not as happy as they should be.

Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Ron Dittmer on January 03, 2018, 09:42:52 pm
Sheeesh, we could only wish the rv industry had even one person focused on quality. This isnít new to PC either. Ron lost his Macerator pump to a screw in the system. In the aircraft industry thatís called FOD. Every screw has to be accounted for, every tool along the way.
 I am not stepping into this most recent debate.  I only need to clear the air on Joseph's statement with regard to the bolt lodged in my macerator grinder blades, as detailed HERE (http://www.phoenixusarv.com/community/index.php/topic,2086.0.html).

One of the four brass bolts that held the macerator motor/pump/grinder assembly together had corroded during 8 years of waste exposure that it broke, then jammed the pump.  I cannot in good conscience call that a lack of good quality on the macerator manufacture Sani-Con, and surely does not reflect Phoenix quality.  I thought it was a dang good macerator lasting 8 years.  Macerator pumps are exposed to really bad stuff and work very hard.  I never considered it as reliable of an appliance like the fridge or hot water tank.  More like tires than appliances.

Joseph, I hope you receive my point kindly.....now back to the debate over Phoenix quality.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Joseph on January 03, 2018, 10:11:44 pm
My mistake Ron. I misunderstood , I thought it was a random screw. I stand corrected.
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Ron Dittmer on January 03, 2018, 10:13:23 pm
My mistake Ron. I misunderstood , I thought it was a random screw. I stand corrected.
:)
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jfcaramagno on January 04, 2018, 11:30:05 pm
I'm still don't understand how most of the workmanship on the RV can be so good, and on that same RV there are many examples of very poor workmanship; and no one caught it and corrected it!
When I was a motorcyclist, we blamed poor design, engineering and assembly on summer interns.  :-D
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: Joseph on January 17, 2018, 11:12:30 am
Jatrax, I already do take mine elsewhere. As someone else pointed out buy used. One, I let someone else lose all that money on depreciation. Two, they have had all the bugs in the coach worked out.

I can afford new, I just refuse to throw my money away.

How easy it would be to increase the quality control. One person assigned to go thru every feature on the RV. Items like the water pump not being screwed down would be caught and the installer of said pump knowing future SOS oversights would result in days off
Title: Re: 2018 owners here?
Post by: jatrax on January 17, 2018, 11:39:25 am
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How easy it would be to increase the quality control. One person assigned to go thru every feature on the RV.
Yes, I agree completely.  However, even that will not catch everything.  Some things can not be tested until they are in use.  Some things will test fine until you bounce them down the road at 65 mph.

You point about used is well taken, if I sold my coach now (1 year after delivery) I would be able to stand behind everything in the coach because I have lived with it and fixed all the little nagging things that showed up.  On most RV forums "buy used" is the standard advice for newbies.