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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: jam4travel on May 18, 2019, 10:33:24 am

Title: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: jam4travel on May 18, 2019, 10:33:24 am
I obtained a copy of what appears to be a "New Limited Warranty Coverage" from Phoenix Cruiser covering all their coaches (copy attached).  This is not the limited warranty document that was included in the owners manual of the New Phoenix Cruiser I picked up in October of 2018.

Of major concern is the "Exclusions From This Warranty" section of Document.  Following is a partial quote from this section:  "The Warrantor further makes no warranty with regard to any vehicle used for commercial purposes, as a permanent or full time residence or as a rental vehicle, or any product not registered and not normally used in the United States or Canada." 

This warranty document goes on to say that "Full Time" for the purposes of this Warranty shall mean continuous occupation of the vehicle for a period exceeding 30 days of continuous use or 18 days per month in two or more consecutive months.

I have no idea when this new warranty document went into effect.  For those of you that recently purchased a new Phoenix Cruiser, was this new warranty document in your owners manual?

I want to make all Phoenix Cruiser Owners that have a coach still under warranty aware of the "Full Time" (as defined by Phoenix Cruiser) exclusion from warranty coverage.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: hutch42 on May 18, 2019, 01:04:32 pm
Bummer!  There goes the 6 week cross country trip in your new PC...at least under warranty :'(
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Dave on May 19, 2019, 06:48:47 am
no warranty if you actually use the coach. not a good policy.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: hutch42 on May 19, 2019, 10:38:31 am
The other thing I noticed hidden in the fine print is whats considered commercial use.  "Any PC registered to an LLC shall be deemed commercial use".  Many owners will set up LLC's to avoid certain taxes levied in different states. I am not debating if this is a right or wrong issue morally, but it is legal in certain states, and has nothing to do with commercial use!

I guess the bottom line is that your 12 month, 12,000 mile "limited warranty" is truly limited to a total of 228 days, with no more then 30 consecutive days, or 36 days over a 2 month period of use during the first year.  You'll have to employ a statistician to keep track of use the first year.  Can you imagine the questions asked on a warranty claim? :help  Would not think that PC would have a Robert Mueller team ready to investigate.

Hell of a sales tool.  Makes me think twice if they ever fully develop the TRX.  Will have to bring a black magic marker and pen to strike certain wording in the warranty!

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 20, 2019, 06:03:51 am
I knew some RV dealers stated full time use voided the warranty so I specifically checked that prior to purchase. Phoenix would have been cut from my list at the get go. We had to shop insurance also to make sure full time use was covered.

I wonder if that change is due to the roll out of the TRX. I imagine with the seating capacity and fridge for drinks it could winds up as an"Uber" type "limo" service or mini "party bus" perfect for that bachelor party night or bar hopping marathon.

Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: hutch42 on May 20, 2019, 01:46:27 pm
(Quote) I knew some RV dealers stated full time use voided the warranty so I specifically checked that prior to purchase. Phoenix would have been cut from my list at the get go. We had to shop insurance also to make sure full time use was covered.

I took a look at the other smaller class B+ makers to see if anything unique in the warranty's.  Nothing really, other then they are all longer then PC.  Really don't understand why they are doing this.  See attached.

Hutch










Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: donc13 on May 20, 2019, 07:38:43 pm
Notice it's only for the "body structure" which I find very interesting.   I wonder if they consider cabinets, countertops, windows, battery tray, plumbing lines (both fresh and waste) valves, flush lines, etc. and/or storage compartments part of the "body structure."

Likewise with their wiring.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 21, 2019, 09:10:10 am
I'm sorry to see the change. As full timers it definitely takes a new Phoenix off any future purchase list. We bought new, with warranty, because we were clueless about RVs and are not fix it people. We made sure they covered us as full timers. We did have a lot of issues our first year but they were almost all vendor products covered under that manufacturer's warranty. Phoenix had installed them correctly, they just had faulty internal parts. Kermit actually stepped in to help get our furnace fixed even though it was definitely an Atwood issue. He contacted his Atwood rep and suddenly all confusion evaporated and it got repaired. Our biggest Phoenix issue was a leaking slide and it took a while to find the right solution to make up for a bad slide design but they figured it out and fixed that. Everything else was minor and fixed quickly.

Since we intend to stay full-time, the new warranty would be void within a month and useless to us. I guess we'll keep "Spirit" going as long as feasible then buy used or do another warranty check to make sure we are covered if we decide to buy new.

I'm an"overly" honest person so in good conscience I'll also have to make the warranty issue clear when people in campgrounds ask about the rig. Many in big rigs covet our 2552 and we show it all the time but since a lot of them are snow birds or are on trips longer than 30 days, the warranty would be useless to them to. Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 21, 2019, 09:27:19 am
I was just reading that attached warranty and and I think it says you have to take it to the dealer you bought it from to have warranty service done. Since all sales route through Camper's Inn now, do you have to have it serviced by them? Do they have service centers?
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: hutch42 on May 21, 2019, 03:35:40 pm
I was just reading that attached warranty and and I think it says you have to take it to the dealer you bought it from to have warranty service done. Since all sales route through Camper's Inn now, do you have to have it serviced by them? Do they have service centers?

Campers Inn has 22 locations from Maine to Florida.  Only 5-6 sell PC's so not sure all of their locations will work on as of yet.  The home office will work on and I believe it states in the fine print that you can have other RV repair shops work on with prior approval from home office.  This only if you are not near an authorized repair center.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Denny & Barb on May 21, 2019, 05:31:12 pm
Gosh... am sorry to hear of this Warranty change from my favorite company. Not a good thing..
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Joseph on May 22, 2019, 08:42:09 am
Sad I guess and guessing they are not the only ones. For me I could care less, there is no way I would buy a new Rv with the endless used units available with so little use.  However I appreciate those that just have to buy new to keep those used units coming.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: hutch42 on May 22, 2019, 10:43:18 am
Sad I guess and guessing they are not the only ones. For me I could care less, there is no way I would buy a new Rv with the endless used units available with so little use.  However I appreciate those that just have to buy new to keep those used units coming.


Unfortunately PC's main competition has been bucking the trend on warranties.  Of the five smaller boutique class C and B+ builders PC seems to be going the other way.  Lazy Daze still has a 1 yr unlimited mileage warranty.....Total different animal there.  The other three have been increasing there warranty times.  See attached.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Denny & Barb on May 22, 2019, 05:51:50 pm
I chuckle with these warranties policies from MANY companies.   
WHY, because most are exacterated.   Meaning,
Meaning.... only if your in a position to have your needs SERVICED . 

Guess we much  be aware, of the Location, and What Hoops we have
to Jump Through to have this terrific Warranty actually be able to perform.

Just saying... Please check the "fine print" as you already know.

Just a reminder,

Denny and Barb
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Volkemon on May 23, 2019, 05:03:11 am
Wow. This is very sobering news. But very timely for us!

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I read it the *only* two things covered by the PC warranty is "body of this recreational vehicle"  and "custom paint" (listed under 'Warranty coverage, Summary of warranty". All other parts are warrantied by their respective manufacturers, if at all.


The body of the recreational vehicle is covered against 'substantial' defects... like if it falls off? Panel delamination is not uncommon, I see it often. It also does not stop the use and function of the rv, only the cosmetic appeal. So... I would NOT find it out of line a judge would find that the delamination of the layers NOT to be a SUBSTANTIAL defect, but only a cosmetic defect. And since only materials and workmanship 'Attributable to the manufacturer' is covered, I suppose if they got a bad batch of glue, and applied it in the proper manner, and it failed causing panel delamination...or worse... not covered. They didnt make the glue.

Custom paint warranted for 90 days. Wow. I have sprayed a few BARRELS of clear through a gun.... the only defects you would see in the first 90 days is how bad it was sprayed. The quality of the prep work, and undercoat materials quality will take far longer to show.  I think 90 days is a very safe warranty on their part.


When I offer a guarantee on my work, it is a promise to the customer that I have faith in my work, and the materials I used. The longer I have this warranty in force, the more confident the customer can be. 

This warranty sure sounds like PC is happy the check clears before problems erupt.  :-[

We just sold a business building and a vacation house. We initially planned this to be the time we commit to getting our new RV, after learning what we do/dont like in our 2350. (A 2551 on the ford chassis was the choice, btw)

We are waiting now. Let the money grow for a bit.  I want to see what the next few years look like for PC, and how you folks with new rigs make out. I think we have a good, proven rig right now. No wonder used prices are rising so quick.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: hutch42 on May 23, 2019, 01:31:00 pm
The only real gripe I have with the warranty is the "full timing" disclaimer, "LLC" disclaimer, and "substantial damage" and its interpretation. But have seen this in other warranty's.

The other exceptions to the warranty seem to be sort of normal I think...although could be gray areas.  The 90 day paint warranty a bit unusual maybe.  The "complete body structure" can be all encompassing (or not) (nod)  Covering all PC structural/built items with the exception of those items that carry their own warranty...which is quite a few things, and not unusual for other RV builders. PC does not define certain components in the structure as do other makers.  The words improper installation by PC is not mentioned, nor would it be in any other warranty I believe.  However if they installed the grey and black water tanks backwards, generator upside down, or wired the micro wave improperly, this would be covered in the "complete body structure" I am sure.

The chassis warranty is mentioned, which would be all Ford with exceptions for other vendors add on's like Quigleys stuff.  This is sort of alluded to in the wording.

The last area of who takes care of any of these malfunctions seems to be addressed in legalized talk.  The first thought if it is vendor related...owner takes care of.  Well yes in a way "unless" you live near an authorized service center.  In that case I am assuming that PC will repair all and deal with the vendor themselves.  Or, if out of the area you can bring to a authorized vendor repair center get done yourself.  If a body structure problem.  Get authorization from PC to get work done.

My interpretation of whats covered in the PC warranty and by whom is attached.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: CalCruiser on May 23, 2019, 02:08:13 pm


Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I read it the *only* two things covered by the PC warranty is "body of this recreational vehicle"  and "custom paint" (listed under 'Warranty coverage, Summary of warranty". All other parts are warrantied by their respective manufacturers, if at all.


The body of the recreational vehicle is covered against 'substantial' defects... like if it falls off? Panel delamination is not uncommon, I see it often. It also does not stop the use and function of the rv, only the cosmetic appeal. So... I would NOT find it out of line a judge would find that the delamination of the layers NOT to be a SUBSTANTIAL defect, but only a cosmetic defect. And since only materials and workmanship 'Attributable to the manufacturer' is covered, I suppose if they got a bad batch of glue, and applied it in the proper manner, and it failed causing panel delamination...or worse... not covered. They didnt make the glue.

The lawyers forgot to include a competition use clause

https://youtu.be/0qm3MvmwPmw
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Volkemon on May 24, 2019, 05:13:32 am

The lawyers forgot to include a competition use clause

https://youtu.be/0qm3MvmwPmw

 roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol


WOW. Look at the front tire flex at 3:59-4:01   :beg

4:07-4:10 also. WOW. Wonder what they were inflated to.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Joseph on May 24, 2019, 12:10:30 pm
Reference to the full time. How would anyone know if you spent say three months in your rv? With a 12 month warranty itís over in short order anyway.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: Junior & B on May 24, 2019, 11:03:58 pm
I obtained a copy of what appears to be a "New Limited Warranty Coverage" from Phoenix Cruiser covering all their coaches (copy attached).  This is not the limited warranty document that was included in the owners manual of the New Phoenix Cruiser I picked up in October of 2018.

Of major concern is the "Exclusions From This Warranty" section of Document.  Following is a partial quote from this section:  "The Warrantor further makes no warranty with regard to any vehicle used for commercial purposes, as a permanent or full time residence or as a rental vehicle, or any product not registered and not normally used in the United States or Canada." 

This warranty document goes on to say that "Full Time" for the purposes of this Warranty shall mean continuous occupation of the vehicle for a period exceeding 30 days of continuous use or 18 days per month in two or more consecutive months.

I have no idea when this new warranty document went into effect.  For those of you that recently purchased a new Phoenix Cruiser, was this new warranty document in your owners manual?

I want to make all Phoenix Cruiser Owners that have a coach still under warranty aware of the "Full Time" (as defined by Phoenix Cruiser) exclusion from warranty coverage.


The "Exclusions From This Warranty" section did not appear in the Limited Warranty from my owner's manual. My Limited Warranty looks it's different from the attached.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: jim.godfrey on May 26, 2019, 04:36:56 pm
Would anybody have a copy of the previous warranty they could post?
It would be interesting to compare the two.

I was thinking maybe this reduction in warranty might have something to do with the extended warranty that Campers Inn pushes?
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: jam4travel on May 26, 2019, 05:26:09 pm
Would anybody have a copy of the previous warranty they could post?
It would be interesting to compare the two.

I was thinking maybe this reduction in warranty might have something to do with the extended warranty that Campers Inn pushes?

I have attached a compressed pdf file of the Limited Warranty Document that was in the Owner's Manual of my New 2018 P.C. that I picked up 10/5/2018.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: jim.godfrey on May 26, 2019, 06:22:53 pm
Thank you!

So it looks like the major difference is the Full Timing clause.
I'm surprised to learn that the paint 90 day warranty is not new.
Another change seems to be the need to register the warranty within 10 days of purchase.
Wonder if they moved to a third party warranty company.
In general the language of the new warranty seems fraught with exclusions  whereas the old version just didn't want to be responsible for non factory issues.
Title: Re: New Limited Warranty Coverage from Phoenix Cruiser
Post by: bftownes on May 31, 2019, 06:18:03 am
Is it possible that everyone is over reacting to this?  I bought a new motorhome in 2001 specifically for the purposes of going full-time.  I noticed the warranty on several of the components (water heater for example) had the "full time" clause.  Not once in during the first year was I asked "are you a fulltimer"?  Everything was repaired under warranty. 

Cheers  :)(:
Barry T