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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarz272000 on September 03, 2019, 07:14:29 pm

Title: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 03, 2019, 07:14:29 pm
I am considering replacing my flooded lead acid batteries with AGM.  I have a 2010 PC 2551.  It has XM 1800 inverter and Xantrex XA DC P50 panel.  Where would I find the converter/charger so I can see if it is capable to charge AGM batteries?  Is it under the passenger bed. Do I have to take out the plywood bed cover to see it?

Thanks
Ron S
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: gandalf42 on September 05, 2019, 12:14:16 pm
I would presume it is under the bed as it is for my 2017 2552. Mine has a square piece of wood at the other end of the bed platform you can take out but pretty difficult to see the converter/charger from that point. If you have the paperwork that came with the RV it would tell you what model was used and whether the charging cycle and voltages would be compatible with the AGMs you are considering. That could spare you from removing the plywood.
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: 2 Lucky on September 05, 2019, 01:30:21 pm
What specs exactly are you looking for...I have the same 2010 2551 and can look in my operating manuals for the info.

As far as accessing the converter etc. using a screw gun and removing all the screws is no big deal...way overkill on the screws so I only put 6 of the 20+ back in. You can just prop the plywood up (my waste basket did the trick) to work in the curb side bed compartment.  That is where I put my water accumulator tank and wired in the PI power supply manager. Not much room left under there now.
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 05, 2019, 05:18:51 pm
Thanks for the replies.

I want to find out if my converter/charger is multiple stage and if it can be switched to accommodate AGM batteries.  I have the XM 1800 inverter manual, which the last owner replaced recently, but no documents for converter/ charger.  I assume I have a multiple stage charger because when plugged into shore power the battery voltage rises to about 14.2 bolts and after maybe 1-3 hours levels out to about 13.6 volts. 

I use those cheap 12 volt LED displays you plug into the engine accessory and TV socket above the passenger seat.  They are really slick and easy to monitor.

*Is the converter/charger labeled? 
*About where is it located, in case I want to dive into the under bed compartment.
*Any experience/recommendations on AGM installation? I don’t think it fits in the battery compartment unless pull out tray is removed?

Thanks

Ron S
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: 2 Lucky on September 06, 2019, 06:43:39 am
The converter/charger is part of the fuse and breaker panel ( AC/DC Distribution Panel) that is accessed in the hall between the beds. I think all info can be viewed there. The inverter is not visible but is mounted forward of the converter.

Page 5 of the install manual states:    12. Use the XADC for charging a lead-acid battery only. Do not use the XADC to
charge nickel-cadmium or dry-cell batteries commonly used with home
appliances and electronic equipment. These batteries may burst and cause
injury to persons and damage to property.

Here's a link to the manual:   http://www.bestconverter.com/assets/images/Xantrex/xadc/XADCinstallation.pdf

I'd call the manufacturer, they may have a patch or fix for using AGMs.

I'd like to do the same thing when I need new batteries, keep us informed.

Dougn
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 06, 2019, 08:47:24 am
Here is a site that has all manuals for Xantrex Converter.  It says they have been discontinued.  I did not see any upgrades for AGM batteries.  I am going to verify what is installed in my 2551. If it is the Xantrex i think we will just go with the flooded batteries when they go.  Can’t see upgrading converter/ charger for AGMs until our Xantrex has issues. KISS applies here!

We do not dry camp.  I have a water system installed that makes maintenance of the batteries easy.  The Xantrex is a multiple stage charger with PF correction. That is what I really wanted to confirm.

http://www.bestconverter.com/Xantrex-XADC-Converter-Charger_c_115.html

Thanks for your help!

Ron S
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: gandalf42 on September 06, 2019, 09:40:35 am
Page 5 of the install manual states:    12. Use the XADC for charging a lead-acid battery only. Do not use the XADC to charge nickel-cadmium or dry-cell batteries commonly used with home appliances and electronic equipment. These batteries may burst and cause injury to persons and damage to property.
Dougn

Don't let this confuse you. AGMs are lead-acid batteries so this warning does not apply.

The links that were provided show this to be a 3 -stage charger, generally good, it just is lacking the equalization stage done periodically to de-sulfate the lead-acid batteries. Many AGMs do not recommend using an equalization stage so this is in your favor if you switch to AGMs.

It shows the bulk charging voltage as 14.2 and this is the spec you need to know to check against the recommended charging voltage for any new batteries. Just to check it is not too high (shouldn't be) as if it is lower than recommended it will just take the batteries a little longer to charge.
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: donc13 on September 07, 2019, 10:35:24 am
My AGM batteries (Lifeline) recommend 14.2v charge voltage,.  Flooded lead-acid batteries reccomend 13.8v charging voltage.

Added in edit:  whoops.. Make that 14.5 for my AGMs
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: fandj on September 07, 2019, 04:32:08 pm
http://www.lichty.org/MiscImages/BatterySpecs.pdf (http://www.lichty.org/MiscImages/BatterySpecs.pdf)


This link provides charging recommendations for Interstate 6 volt Golf Car wet cell  batteries.  The recommended voltage per 6 volt battery should be multiplied by two for a pair of 6 volt units connected in series in the Phoenix MH.


The recommended voltage for absorption and equalization exceed 15 volts which could exceed various appliance control board max design voltage.  The only way I would feel comfortable in applying voltages in excess of the control board limits is to disconnect the battery from the motor home and apply the charge/equalization voltage to the isolated battery bank.


I have adjusted my Morningstar solar controller temp compensated output to a maximum output of 14.8 volts.  The Progessive Dynamics converter max output is limited to 14.4 volts.
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 08, 2019, 07:35:23 am
Page 5 of the install manual states:    12. Use the XADC for charging a lead-acid battery only. Do not use the XADC to charge nickel-cadmium or dry-cell batteries commonly used with home appliances and electronic equipment. These batteries may burst and cause injury to persons and damage to property.
Dougn

Don't let this confuse you. AGMs are lead-acid batteries so this warning does not apply.

The links that were provided show this to be a 3 -stage charger, generally good, it just is lacking the equalization stage done periodically to de-sulfate the lead-acid batteries. Many AGMs do not recommend using an equalization stage so this is in your favor if you switch to AGMs.

It shows the bulk charging voltage as 14.2 and this is the spec you need to know to check against the recommended charging voltage for any new batteries. Just to check it is not too high (shouldn't be) as if it is lower than recommended it will just take the batteries a little longer to charge.

Yes I was confused.  Thanks for clearing that up. I will consider AGMs.  I have to see if they can fit in my battery tray without major rework.

Ron S
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 08, 2019, 08:13:11 am
My AGM batteries (Lifeline) recommend 14.2v charge voltage,.  Flooded lead-acid batteries reccomend 13.8v charging voltage.

Added in edit:  whoops.. Make that 14.5 for my AGMs


What is the part number for your lifeline AGMs? 12 volt or 6 volt?

Ron S
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: donc13 on September 08, 2019, 02:11:57 pm
My AGM batteries (Lifeline) recommend 14.2v charge voltage,.  Flooded lead-acid batteries reccomend 13.8v charging voltage.

Added in edit:  whoops.. Make that 14.5 for my AGMs


What is the part number for your lifeline AGMs? 12 volt or 6 volt?

Ron S

GPL-4CT 6v deep cycle 220Ah

No modifications for battery tray, they are the same size as the Interstate flooded cell 6v golf cart batteries my 2015 PC 2551 came with.

I bought them from BDBatteries https://bdbatteries.com/collections/lifeline/products/lifeline-gpl-4ct

They are expensive ($341ea but that includes shipping) but in my opinion, we'll worth the price.  I am 100% satisfied with them.

If you currently have a 12v battery (or 2) Lifeline makes most, if not all, their batteries in standard battery group sizes.
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 08, 2019, 04:07:07 pm
Thanks donc13. Same size no brainer. I hate reiventing the wheel.

You guys in Colorado think clearly and are very helpful.  Must be the fresh air up there!

We got to get to Colorado soon. 

Ron S
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: donc13 on September 08, 2019, 04:48:51 pm
Thanks donc13. Same size no brainer. I hate reiventing the wheel.

You guys in Colorado think clearly and are very helpful.  Must be the fresh air up there!

We got to get to Colorado soon. 

Ron S

Do it!

We love the UP and visit often!
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: gandalf42 on September 09, 2019, 05:55:08 am
Also the Lifeline GPL-6CTs (300 Ahr) will fit in the battery drawer. You have to lay them on their side (which you can do with AGMs) but they fit without modding the drawer. I don't know though whether you need a "wire stretcher" or not if you are replacing factory installed upright batteries as I had them installed by the factory at build.
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: biglegmax on September 10, 2019, 10:36:57 pm
I agree with Gandalf, spend a little more go with the GPL 6CTS. I've got four, can't be happier, so far. They can be mounted , terminals inward, a little modification to the shelf, reduce the cobweb of wires PC creates with all the extra loops, totally unnecessary and really not to very high standards.
Doug
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 10, 2019, 11:05:58 pm
When converting from two-12V wet acid, to two-6V AGM, In my heart & mind, I could not bring myself to rest them on their side.  So I removed the battery drawer, installed flat sheet metal, a battery frame, and then placed the AGMs inside upright.  The + and - terminal pegs are easy to access for external charging.  CLICK HERE (https://www.phoenixusarv.com/community/index.php?topic=2092.0) for my write-up with pictures.

I am 100% convinced that a pair of 6V AGM batteries is the way to go.  AGM technology is one great advantage for maintenance-free and extra power.  6V batteries discharge and charge in unison which makes them perform much better than my experience with two different sets of two 12Vs.

Like biglegmax says, the cabling gets all cleaned up.

I don't know if Phoenix still has the rear tires splashing road debris on the batteries, but it was so with our 2007 2350 as shown HERE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/sets/72157622075091526/) where I reworked the cables for a splash shield, which unknowing to me at the time made the perfect setup for AGM.
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 11, 2019, 07:11:08 pm
Attached picture shows Jam4travels install of Lifeline GPL-6CT AGM batteries.  They are installed on their side. The Lifetime technical document says “Lifeline® AGM batteries are designed to be installed upright (terminal facing upwards). For installation in non-upright orientations, contact Concorde for assistance.”   I am going to contact Concorde to get their input on the side install.

Jam4Travels: The positive terminal seems a little close the the tray.  Maybe the picture is misleading.   Sometimes I am all thumbs and anything that can happen, happens. Do you have any comment on this item? What if battery shifts?

The Lifetime 6CT and 4CT AGM batteries are awesome.  Thanks for all your input on this topic.

Ron S
Title: Re: Battery Charger Question
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 12, 2019, 05:49:39 am
What if battery shifts?
My earlier 12V batteries had extra room inside the original battery tray.  I placed a hardwood insert to keep them from moving around.  It worked perfectly.  Maybe he did something similar and we just don't see it.