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Messages - Volkemon

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1
OK, it is a little bit staged.  ;)

There is a lump in the driveway under the RR wheel. Country life. I was moving the camper, and this was out of the way. I looked back and went  heartshower  and grabbed the camera.

New springs did lower it about 2 1/2" or so.

I will get a level pavement shot, but I was getting photos from the last gig and found this. I remember thinking it looked *so* cool.

Except for that front bumper/fender flare transition.  :'( :'( Makes me want to poke my eyes out.  roflol  I will fix that... pretty sure I am keeping the PC cover on front and modifying it. Lowered down, it is MUCH better looking. I can see taking those top strakes on the bumper, and widening the ends to flow into the flares. Add an air dam and real foglights.

2
Well hey... another month gone by!

Towed the trailer to SOSMP,  about 300 miles each way.

Going up, pouring rain and gusty winds. Other traffic limited us to ~70 mph, but handling was a DREAM. Even with the trailer, full fuel, 20 gal in the fresh tank and Mrs V loading up the inside it STILL feels softer in back. And the steering/handling is car like. Pleasure to drive. Mrs V and the Grandson were in the back bed for most of the trip, she said the ride had less bumps/sway - last time they were having trouble coloring.  (nod)  This time it was a breeze. Same road, same load, worse weather than last trip. New front springs the only difference. Guess thats as close as I get to 'scientific data' on this project.  roflol

Used the 2" drop receiver insert -  the ball is 'in line' with the tube. The trailer wasnt level, the rear was a bit low.

There is a 3 1/2 I will try next.   I would like the trailer tongue a bit lower to unload the rear tires on the trailer. Should also tranfer a bit more weight to the camper. The 'arse' end of my camper now stays up when loaded.  I am NOT complaining!  2o2

I have yet to take a pic with the trailer. Sorry.  >( Try to get my act together and post some one of these months. 

3
General Discussion / Re: 2004 PC 2350 colors of the decals
« on: Today at 05:40:27 am »
This is the one we bought.

Good Looking Ride!  I like the brushbar up front. Bet it makes the others move over!  Any chance of a 'head on' pic?  tymote

 :-[

And as usual, the topic drifts.  :lol  I am a lone voice here, and on nice Florida roads, so PLEASE take my comments with that caveat.
You can put a whole bunch of band-aids on the chassis and improve its handling.  I did an engineered approach, and determined the front end was too high and 'over sprung'.  Scroll down to the bottom of this link for the latest.  https://www.phoenixusarv.com/community/index.php?topic=3714.45;last_msg=32993




4
General Discussion / Re: 2004 PC 2350 colors of the decals
« on: October 16, 2019, 05:48:03 am »
The picture I posted above is from the 2004 Phoenix USA company website. It looks just like mine except for the faded decals on my PC.
It is a 2004 2350.

D'oh! 

Looks like Calcruiser also thought that was your ride. I should have known quicker that it wasnt a 2350..   :-[   


 tymote


5
General Discussion / Re: 2004 PC 2350 colors of the decals
« on: October 15, 2019, 10:10:23 am »
Good Looking ride!

That is a 2004 model 2350? Looks a lot bigger than my 2006 2350.  Like a few feet longer.  (WH)  Those stripes work wonders!

6
General Discussion / Re: Banks PowerPack System V-10
« on: October 15, 2019, 10:07:23 am »
Did some checking....The Stinger System SKU 49162 is available for my 2017 2552 for $949 which includes: high flow oiled air filter, tailpipe, flow-thru muffler, and assorted hangers, and heat shield. The Banks Power Pack (headers) are not available for the 2017 models, but may be available for earlier models.

The web site claims an increase of 32HP - 42lb/ft torque and up to 5% better mpg!

Anyone have first hand knowledge on the Banks System on a present or previous RV they would like to share?I

Stinger System for $859.   Link -  https://5startuning.com/product-category/2016-2019-ford-6-8l-rv-class-c/2016-2019-ford-6-8l-rv-class-c-combo-kits/
*****************************

I looked at the Banks system, but found similar results in an easier, cheaper form.

I got the 5 Star engine tune. Plug in, re program. No parts to install, and easily returned to stock.

Paid $400 for an 'open box' special, and mine was for a 2006, the 2016+ shows $549

Link - https://5startuning.com/product/2016-2020-6-8l-f-53-rvmotorhome-5-star-tuning-x4-5-star-tune-preloaded-device/

40 extra HP at 3200, and 75 ft-lbs more torque at 3200. Measured at the wheel. Shifting reprogramming is also done, and increases driveability , IMO.  Similar to the results you state for the Stinger System, but not having to change parts. The transmission shifting better was worth the price - no more 2-gear downshifts.  2o2  As the load factor gets to .72, it unlocks the converter for more power, then at .75 it downshifts. I would like to see if that can be reprogrammed to .80 to delay the downshift.

I use the 'gauge' functions also, nice to see the trans temp. (And load factor like I used above!) With the trailer, I noticed the trans temp slowly climbing if I went 75-80mph as usual. (Up to 215* )  So I slowed to 70-75, and it went back down to 190* and stayed there. Might have saved me some trouble down the road by keeping things cool.  There was no drivability condition that showed the trans heating up, the gauge was the only indicator.


Suppose I could get better mileage at 62MPH,  :lol  but at 70-75MPH this last weeks trip with a #4K trailer it got me ~8MPG.  It gets ~10MPG at 75-80 MPH without the trailer.   A 5% improvement would be 1/2 MPG better, so tough to measure that one.

 

7
General Discussion / Re: TRX
« on: September 17, 2019, 12:44:23 pm »
A personal thing....I wished they did something new with the front grille.  I never liked the industrial look that has been around since 2008.

Mrs V loves the 'face' on the Transit. Grill makes the nose, smiley face on the bottom..  Still looks like it needs lashes, but a little less feminine than the Dodge   :lol..



Should come standard with these..  2o2




But WOW... from this angle we begin to retch...


Maybe I can lay some of the blame to cell phone camera distortion, but Good Lord.. that is one mashed together 'style'.  The window bottoms are what, a foot below windshield base? And does even 1/2 of that window open? Is the front overhang 4 feet? (Guess my eyes are good...looked it up and I am close! 40.3 inches. https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Brochure?bodystyle=Van&make=Ford&model=Transit&year=2018) (2007 E350 overhang 66% of that at 30 inches.. https://www.iseecars.com/car/2007-ford-econoline_cargo_van-specs#styleId=286426

They could have left those 'style grooves' out of the side adapters IMO...  Adds nothing but MORE fussy lines, and there are plenty there for 3 vehicles already. The top cap looks like the design money ran out when they got there. Too bad, there could have been a unifying feature there... somehow.. 
I have to compliment the paint designer... that black patch does make the front look less like it was extruded from a sphincter and superglued to a shoe box..  That bottom window curve is remarkable in the fact that it manages to exist in a large group of curves...and compliment none of them.  Once again, could be the camera. Maybe it matches the hood curve? Dunno.

Is the coach area wider than in the past, or the track narrower than the E350? Those rear duallies are lost deep in the wheelwell.. looks funky to me.  (YEP!  Rear track w/duallies Transit - 65.7"  E350 - 75.4 "  so about 10 inches narrower)   I am of the opinion a wider track is more stable. Looks better also.

But hey, there is a percentage of people that just like NEW and DIFFERENT. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I better get a service dog and a cane soon. I had been warned that blindness would strike me...   roflol  evidently the time is near.


BUT... I do love the wheels. A tribute to the original 'Indy Slots'   

8
General Discussion / Re: Leveling Jacks pro & con
« on: September 17, 2019, 12:18:57 pm »
I would LOVE leveling jacks, but it seems that the tank layout in a 2006 2350 makes the rear jack fitment an issue.

Anyone out there with a 99-2007 2350 on a E350 chassis that has leveling jacks?  I would LOVE a pic of the back jacks.

To me the only negative to having any of these electromechanical devices are unexpected failures.  I guess if one is too afraid of these kind of failures one should avoid cars, trucks, and RVs along with the myriad of other devises that add pleasure to our lives.

About the only corollary I would add is 'more complexity leads to more problems'. I do want leveling jacks, but manual ones. I am fine watching a level. TWO levels even.  :lol  I dont need 'press a button and wait' as that leads to MANY more parts and electronics... not to mention adds $1000 or more to the kit.   (http://www.thebigfootleveler.com/ford-e-350.html)  This is the kit I would like, if I can work around the rear fitment issues - http://www.thebigfootleveler.com/platinum-system-e-350.html 

9
OK, sorry for no pics yet. Had 2 gigs this weekend and sick on top of that.

But I had to update. I honestly feel like I am driving another rig.  ~300 miles this weekend,  (2) 150 mile round trips, on US1,  Practically due south going, due north for return.  20 MPH constant wind from the  East and Northeast from hurricane Humberto offshore. Gusts to ~30.

FULL gas tank, ~20 gal in fresh, gray/black empty, probably 400 (?) pounds of audio and video gear inside.  Guessing.... never weighed my recording gear...  (WH)

BEFORE, this would have a constant need for attention at the wheel, steering against the wind. Very tiring, as the front would be somewhat indecisive in its direction. Definitely 'two hands on wheel' driving.  I used the term 'floaty' before, the wheel would have a spot in the middle that you could move back and forth that wouldn't really affect direction, then it would take effect.  I am pretty sure that was the steering gear geometry being wrong from being up so high.  It had a fresh alignment and tires when I got it, but no spec sheet to see what the actual alignment values were.

I liken the previous steering 'feel' to be very similar to riding in one of the Ford 4X4 trucks with a lift, but without the dropped pitman arm / modified drag link.  When you raise the front suspension, it takes the drag link from horizontal to angled.  This causes 'bump steer', where the truck steers itself as it goes through the dip.  I found the camper had similar, so it was second nature to adapt to it. (I have a bit of time in 4X4 trucks...  (nod)  Most, if not about all with lift kits.  )   

The stock setup was within factory specs, but I think maybe right on the edge. One loaded, and back squatted a bit more, it was probably off.  Most RV drivers probably chalk it up to 'RV Handling'  and threw a bunch of other parts at it to address the symptoms. 

AFTER:
Now that the drag link and tie rod are much closer to parallel, and the front lowered down to the stock ride height, things are MUCH more stable.  Night and Day level of 'more stable'.   Friday was a 22+ hr day for me,  up at 02:30 fri and driving home at 00:30 sat.  Before, with the crosswind and fatigue, I would be drained by the drive home. Now, it is similar to driving my little Nissan Frontier!  One (1) finger at the top of the wheel, goes where I want it, and bumps/dips require no correction. I gave the promoter a ride for the last ~20 miles, and he was VERY impressed by the power and handling of the RV.

I was on the path to get the oversize front bar and rear sway bar and rear track bar... but it is SO much better now  US1 in takes a couple hard turns, and I pushed the cornering as far as I trusted the load inside not to go flying. I was still cornering harder than most would consider reasonable for a RV, and it was VERY comfortable. Tires didnt even start to talk back.  If the opportunity is presented, I may have to try some 'G Force' testing. In a camper.  roflol

Not sure why, but I swear that the rear ride is softer now also. With no data to back it up, I am hesitant to mention it.  Not even sure why it would be, so maybe its just the incredibly nice ride and handling up front has me smiling at everything.   heartshower

Cant wait to try the trailer behind. May have to put the ball down a bit, it needed a 2" rise before ride level.

If anyone is near exit 176 off of I-95 in Florida, I will gladly give you a ride, and/or let you drive.  I sincerely regret I do not have hard 'Before and After' ride quality data to back up the results I feel.  I have absolutely NO regrets that I did this, and would recommend it to anyone with a 2350 on the same Ford chassis.

10
WOW.

I am driving a different vehicle now. No more 'floating' feeling over bumps.  SO glad I opted for the 15% rate reduction, the weight transfer lowering it did firm up the front ride a bit over what it was before. Sorta hard to tell if it is firmer, or just feels that way because the 'floatyness' is gone.

Steering is much more precise with the geometry up front back to stock height, not raised.  The owner of the shop (they do trucks/RV's regularly) was impressed by the overall build, and how tight the whole rig felt on test drive. Also commented on the power, and told me he DID goose it to see how it did once he realized it was a V!0.  (exactly)  He personally overlooked the job, as he was VERY embarrassed about the price doubling. Our company does ~15K a year with them on our equipment, and I am sure he wanted to make things right. He told me my camper rides and handles better than his 2018 F250 quad cab 2WD.  (cheer)  (cheer)  (cheer)

Pics when I get home. I am pleased at the result for $1000. 

11
UPDATE!


Ow. But somewhat expected... the camper had the 'special' bushings in it to make it align with the front end so high up. I was aware of that, but hoping the 2" reduction would still be in the range. Nope.  Not to be done 'right'. They offered to leave it, and advised the camber would be a bit off.

Now that it is stock height, it needs stock bushings.   That take ~1.25 hrs per side. (I checked the flat rate) so NEW bill is $650 + tax.  And not done till tomorrow.

So Ron... maybe have stock bushings ready if you do achieve a bigger drop than 1". OR watch them align it, and be SURE the camber is correct.


12
UPDATE!

Taking the easy way out, having a buddy do it at his shop. $300 for replacement/alignment is pretty darn reasonable. Add rainy season in Florida, driveway mechanics... Oh hell yes.  (nod)  Goes in tomorrow morning.  (cheer)

FINALLY found the RoadBounce app had installed itself on a tablet I had, not my phone.  (WH)  Used it to get a baseline this morning....what a dud. The free version only tells you percentage of good/bad road. Worthless for a baseline measurement.  Once again, back to the 'Butt Dyno'. Oh well, I tried. I have an Android phone, and dont see any other similar apps.

Little excited to see how the handling changes with the 2" lower ride height and 15% lower spring rate.  It is nice knowing that for $300 I can go back to stock if it does not pan out. I have a feeling that I will be happy.

Will try to get before and after pics in the same spot to show the difference. 

13
General Discussion / Re: Refrigerator fire reminder
« on: September 11, 2019, 08:15:26 am »
tymote tymote tymote

1200, 1201, 1210 and 1211, 4 door refrigerators with cooling unit serial numbers ranging from 700000 to 13085759. 

Quote
The defect is a potential cooling unit leak caused during AC electric mode operation. If a leak occurs, the refrigerator's cooling performance will deteriorate and a yellow powder residue will be evident at the cooling unit's heating element. Because extended operation of a leaking cooling unit in the AC electric mode may result in a fire, immediate repair.



That wouldnt fit in my little 2350. Mine is a N621,  Later model, serial 8601XXX , but evidently earlier models HAD a recall -
https://www.rvbasics.com/rv-press-release/Norcold-Extends-Refrigerator-Recall.html
Quote
Norcold has voluntarily recalled N841, N821, N641, N621 and 1082 gas/electric refrigerators built in 1999. Affected models have a cooling unit serial number (found on the solution chamber and viewed through the refrigerator vent door outside the RV) from 1038000-1099000.

https://norcold.com/recall-information/

Quote
1200, 1201, 1210, 1211 Models

The Norcold, Inc. refrigerators listed below have been recalled.

It is important to implement this safety enhancement to prevent an unsafe elevation in the temperature of the cooling unit should the unit fail in operation. This enhancement seeks to minimize the risk of injury or death due to fire.

Norcold Inc. has decided to recall certain 1200, 1201, 1210 and 1211 model gas/electric refrigerators with serial numbers from 315525 to 13088811, non-consecutively. The refrigerator’s model and serial number are located inside the fresh food compartment. These refrigerators may have cooling units with a cooling unit serial number between 700000 to 13085759. This is a new recall campaign to include all 1200, 1201, 1210 and 1211 models.

Even if your refrigerator was repaired as part of a previous recall, it is necessary to have it repaired again to minimize the risk of injury or death due to fire.

If you have one of these refrigerator models, use the following procedure:

Identify and write down the refrigerator model. If it is a Norcold 1200, 1201, 1210 and 1211 model, go to step 2.
Identify and write down the refrigerator serial number. If the serial number falls in the range of 315525 and 13088811, go to step 3.
Identify and write down the cooling unit serial number. If the serial number falls in the range of 700000 and 13085759, go to step 4.
Call your dealer immediately.
The installation of the High-Temperature Sensor will be at no cost to you.

Owners of recalled refrigerators should NOT operate their refrigerator until it can be professionally repaired by your dealer or a Norcold authorized service center.

If you have one of the recalled refrigerators and you:

Currently reside in the RV, you should immediately:
Set the refrigerator controls to “OFF”.
Unplug the refrigerator through the service vent on the outside of the vehicle.
Contact your dealer, a Norcold authorized service center or Norcold’s Recall Center at 1-800-767-9101 as soon as possible to get assistance.
Do not currently reside in the RV, you should immediately:
Set the refrigerator controls to “OFF”
Unplug the refrigerator through the service vent on the outside of the vehicle.
Disconnect from shore power.
Contact your dealer, a Norcold authorized service center or Norcold’s Recall Center at 1-800-767-9101 as soon as possible to get assistance.
Failure to follow these instructions can result in a fire causing injury or death.

14
General Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself!
« on: September 11, 2019, 04:59:03 am »
If anyone knows how to contact Ron I would like to get the history behind this coach. . Look forward to learning about this coach on the forum.


Hi Lance!   

St Pete native here, now I am on the east end of HWY 60.  hithere

If you want to see all Ron-n-toni's posts, here is the link - https://www.phoenixusarv.com/community/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2894

15
General Discussion / Re: Drivers power seat
« on: August 22, 2019, 01:04:26 pm »
Well, I guess the resolution would be to call them.  Airbags in the steering wheel and passenger dash are designed with the driver or passenger sitting in a certain geometry.  That's why vehicles have the ability to turn off the passenger airbag.   With smaller, and even taller people, the airbag itself can do more harm than just using the shoulder/lap seat belts.

However, your interpretation may be correct and mine wrong.   I would suggest anyone considering one of those swivels ask the manufacturer exactly what that "approval" is for.

Suppose you could call as a precaution, but past and current use of a swivel in an airbag protected location would have me thinking 'They wrote what they meant'. 

But hey... I am 'That Guy'   so I called.   roflol  According to the person answering their phone, who did not state their name, the DMV in Arizona (their home state) has a rule that says vehicles under 8000# GVWR may not have swiveling seats in airbag equipped positions.  But then he said that the DOT rule they have in the ad supports that...and it doesnt. They state ""Tested to Comply with DOT FMVSS 207 Safety Standards per sections S4.2, S4.3.""

Well...   here is that code.  https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.207   

Excerpted for your reading pleasure, the referenced sections and subsections -  :lol

Quote
S4.2. General performance requirements. When tested in accordance with S5, each occupant seat shall withstand the following forces, in newtons, except for: a side-facing seat; a passenger seat on a bus other than a school bus; a passenger seat on a school bus with a GVWR greater than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); and, a passenger seat on a school bus with a GVWR less than or equal to 4,536 kg manufactured before October 21, 2011.

(a) In any position to which it can be adjusted - 20 times the mass of the seat in kilograms multiplied by 9.8 applied in a forward longitudinal direction;

(b) In any position to which it can be adjusted - 20 times the mass of the seat in kilograms multiplied by 9.8 applied in a rearward longitudinal direction;

(c) For a seat belt assembly attached to the seat - the force specified in paragraph (a), if it is a forward facing seat, or paragraph (b), if it is a rearward facing seat, in each case applied simultaneously with the forces imposed on the seat by the seat belt assembly when it is loaded in accordance with S4.2 of § 571.210; and

(d) In its rearmost position - a force that produces a 373 newton meters moment about the seating reference point for each designated seating position that the seat provides, applied to the upper cross-member of the seat back or the upper seat back, in a rearward longitudinal direction for forward-facing seats and in a forward longitudinal direction for rearward-facing seats.

S4.2.1 Seat adjustment. Except for vertical movement of nonlocking suspension type occupant seats in trucks or buses, each seat shall remain in its adjusted position when tested in accordance with the test procedures specified in S5.

Quote
S4.3. Restraining device for hinged or folding seats or seat backs. Except for a passenger seat in a bus or a seat having a back that is adjustable only for the comfort of its occupants, a hinged or folding occupant seat or occupant seat back shall -

(a) Be equipped with a self-locking device for restraining the hinged or folding seat or seat back, and

(b) If there are any designated seating positions or auxiliary seating accommodations behind the seat, either immediately to the rear or to the sides, be equipped with a control for releasing that restraining device.

S4.3.1 Accessibility of release control. If there is a designated seating position immediately behind a seat equipped with a restraining device, the control for releasing the device shall be readily accessible to the occupant of the seat equipped with the device and, if access to the control is required in order to exit from the vehicle, to the occupant of the designated seating position immediately behind the seat.

S4.3.2 Performance of restraining device.

S4.3.2.1 Static force.

(a) Once engaged, the restraining device for a forward-facing seat shall not release or fail when a forward longitudinal force, in newtons, equal to 20 times the mass of the hinged or folding portion of the seat in kilograms multiplied by 9.8 is applied through the center of gravity of that portion of the seat.

(b) Once engaged, the restraining device for a rearward-facing seat shall not release or fail when a rearward longitudinal force, in newtons, equal to 8 times the mass of the hinged or folding portion of the seat in kilograms multiplied by 9.8 is applied through the center of gravity of that portion of the seat.

S4.3.2.2 Acceleration. Once engaged, the restraining device shall not release or fail when the device is subjected to an acceleration of 20 g., in the longitudinal direction opposite to that in which the seat folds.

But he then went on to say 'We install them ALL THE TIME- HUNDREDS OF THEM  :beg in cars. He said the rule was from 1999 and a formality.  (WH)   

But hey, maybe its an Arizona law... so I went to   section 28 of Arizona law, all things transportation.  2o2

https://www.azleg.gov/arsDetail/?title=28

Article 16 would be our relevant chapter that the friendly officer would be looking at to ticket me for the swivel...

This link says WHO the rules apply to, pretty much everyone. No RV exception.   (Basically LEO and Farm exemption, thats all!)
https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00921.htm

There's a helluva list there, detailing about everything used on a vehicle. Mirrors, wipers, lights, gas cap (!) ... you name it. No mention of Swivel...or airbag.  Or any regulation on seats at all.

Quote
28-922
Lighted lamps required
28-923
Visibility distance; mounted height of lamps
28-924
Motor vehicle head lamps
28-925
Tail lamps
28-926
New motor vehicles; reflectors
28-927
Stop lamps; peace officers; warnings
28-928
Applicability of lighting laws
28-929
Additional lighting equipment required on certain vehicles
28-930
School bus lighting equipment; standards and specifications
28-931
Lamp colors
28-932
Reflector and lamp mountings
28-933
Reflector and lamp visibility
28-934
Obstructed lights not required
28-935
Lamp or flag on projecting load
28-936
Lamps on parked vehicles
28-937
Lamps on other vehicles and equipment
28-938
Spot and auxiliary lamps
28-939
Signal lamps and devices
28-940
Additional lighting equipment
28-941
Multiple beam road lighting equipment arrangement
28-942
Multiple beam road lighting equipment usage
28-943
Single beam road lighting equipment
28-944
Lighting equipment on motor driven cycles
28-945
Alternate road lighting equipment
28-946
Number of driving lamps required or permitted
28-947
Special restrictions on lamps
28-948
Snow removal equipment lamps
28-949
Selling or using lamps
28-952
Required brake equipment
28-953
Brakes on all-terrain vehicles and motor driven cycles
28-954
Horns and warning devices
28-955
Mufflers; noise and air pollution prevention; emissions control devices; civil penalty; exception
28-955.01
Motorcycles; noise level equipment; unauthorized equipment
28-955.02
Motorcycle noise level rules
28-955.03
Exemption for racing motorcycles; definition
28-955.04
Exhaust system; visual inspection; requirements; civil penalty
28-956
Mirrors
28-957
Windshield wipers required; golf cart exception
28-957.01
Windshields required
28-958
Tire equipment restrictions
28-958.01
Rear fender splash guards
28-959
Safety glass required; applicability; denial or suspension of registration; definition
28-959.01
Materials on windows or windshield; exceptions; requirements; violation; definitions
28-960
Flares; warning devices; requirements
28-961
Display of warning devices; disabled vehicle
28-962
Vehicles transporting explosives; rules
28-963
Image display device; prohibition; exceptions; definition
28-964
Motorcycles; all-terrain vehicles; motor driven cycles; equipment; exception
28-965
Fuel tank caps
28-966
Neighborhood electric vehicles; motorized quadricycles; speed; restrictions

I also searched the text of the original 1991 federal bill about airbags, swivels were not mentioned. Nor was rotate when applying to seats.
I invite you to find anything conflicting, but being that you can buy brand new vehicles, with swivel seats in airbag protected positions from Phoenix Cruiser as we breathe... My money is that it is 100% legal.  (Or we got one heck of a class action suit gonna happen, right?)

But hey,  you get a prize for playing.  :-D

'Wacky' Florida DOT codes for you... If it is raining, you MUST have headlights on.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.217.html

316.217.b

"During any rain, smoke, or fog."

There is NO law stating you must turn on wipers.  :beg They DO have to be present and work, but you do not have to use them.  An officer may issue a ticket for it, but the lack of an applicable law will have the case dismissed if you take it to court. If you do NOT take it to court, you must pay the stated fine.  I know this being an avid user of Rain-X.  I have been pulled over several times over the years during storms for 'non working wipers'. Valid guess by LEOs, it was a 1971 VW bus..  After demonstrating they work, usually I get to go. But a few LEOs feel OBLIGATED to write a ticket when they are standing in the rain next to you.  I then got it dismissed in court, and got told there was no avenue for 'compensating' me for the time because the officer wrote the ticket in accordance with 'common standards'.

It is also illegal to drive with the hazards on in the rain in Florida, unless you are in an active funeral procession. Wish they would ticket the morons that drive with hazards in the rain.......





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