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 1 
 on: Today at 12:25:06 am 
Started by sailors35 - Last post by biglegmax
I was hoping that there were others out there that would chime in on this subject. I suspect that most PC owners do not spend much time away from the pedestal. It appears there is not much interest in this subject.

Im sure somewhere it has been posted as to what happens when you do not manage your waste waters, but it might help to review the potential situations.
These are my experiences over the years with several RVs, this is not PC specific, but it applies.
 
Our primary use is to spend as much time away from the pedestal as possible. The only two limiting factors, for us, are the time we can devote to a trip, and potable water.
Potable water needs to go somewhere, black or grey, until you can find an appropriate place to dump. So this means you have to have tank capacity, and the ability to get the waste there. Hence Sailor 35 question    What is the best procedure?

On many RV models, like the PC 2350, and other PC models, the waste tank capacities require you have a plan. What happens when your grey tank gets full? Generally it will back up into the shower, it has to go somewhere. If you are taking a shower and it backs up, you are instantly reminded of everything you have put down the kitchen sink because it is floating around your ankles. Another experience with a full grey tank will have you mopping up the shower, and sometimes the floor in the bathroom area when waste water sloshes out of the shower drain pan driving down a windy road. Both situations can be avoided, but they have to be managed.
 
This is why I respectively disagree with JaTrax comment comparing a house sewer, or house septic system to an Rv system, as being the same.. Sewer and septic are what I would describe as an OPEN system, meaning  basically it all runs downhill until its gone, versus an Rv system that I would call a Closed system, that needs to be managed, and doesnt run anywhere except to a tank, shower, sink, etc. unless you are Hooked to a sewer with open lines.
 RV builders have made a point, for decades, of seperating the grey from the black, my experience is limited but I have never heard of any Manufacturer(except PC)  suggest comingleing grey waste water with black, being  acceptable. This is the process Ron has described above.
If you have two tanks both with fluids and open valves connecting them, anything can happen.

So, what it comes down to is a choice, like so many in life, what is the gain, and what does it cost? From what I can determine, relying on Rons posts, gravity blending the tanks will allow you to dump your grey tank 1x into the black tank. On a 2350 with a +/- 23 gal grey tank, I suspect that will amount to maybe 18 gals. Im taking into consideration you do not ever want to fill your grey tank full to start with, and with this gravity equalization process you will never want to completely drain the grey tank. I think 18 gals would be generous based on the fact you will be guessing as to when to shut the grey tank off, and that is critical. The gain 18 gals. The cost, in my mind is potentially contaminating my grey system, with black waste.

For me, I have problems dealing with peas floating around in my shower, I know I dont want any chance of TP. So the gravity, equalization transfer of 18gals from the grey tank to black tank will Never happen for me.

 I will be the first to acknowledge, these are probably extreme ends of the spectrum. But, this is reality, and something that can happen, and something you should be aware of so you can make an informed decision.

I will be carrying extra potable water ,beyond the factory supplied capacities, and needing to fill every possible place I can find with waste water.

Which brings me back to the original question, what is the best procedure?
Doug

 2 
 on: February 22, 2018, 11:56:16 pm 
Started by aimee - Last post by Fred and Paula
Thanks Ron,

I hadnt though about the chassis be the same rating regardless of the model. I still would like to find out the actual weight of the 2552 and 3100 with slides.

We are going to go with the slide. We will have guests with us on occasions so the extra floor space would be nice. If we chose the 2552 we will be going with the couch, bed option for the added sleeping capacity. I will give PC a few more days to reply to my email before giving them a call.

Fred

 3 
 on: February 22, 2018, 10:07:29 pm 
Started by aimee - Last post by ron.dittmer
One other thing I noticed on the PCs web site. The 2552 and 3100 have the same weight specifications 14,500 GVWR and 22,000 GCVW. Does anyone now the actual dry weights of a 2552 and 3100 model?

Fred
Fred,

The E450 chassis is rated at 14,500/22,000 regardless of the model it is used on.  You are right-on asking what the actual weight of each model is.  If a slide out is not important to you, it would also be interesting to know what they weigh without their respective slide out.  I know the 2552 can be made without a slide out as a few people on this forum have ordered them without.  I think maybe the 3100 can also.  The slide out is an option on many models, of coarse at an up-charge.

Hopefully Phoenix can install a 7500 pound hitch and appropriately rated frame extension for you.  I imagine the rear frame extension would also need to be beefed up.

Ron

 4 
 on: February 22, 2018, 08:06:47 pm 
Started by 2 Frazzled - Last post by Joe R
We followed the shore of lake Huron then crossed over to Petoskey and up along Lake Michigan, crossed over the Mac. Then went to Soo St. Marie.
The Tunnel of trees is a scenic road above Petoskey it is a tight road for the 2350. If you have anything longer I would not recommend that section of road.
In Cross Lake Village I would recommend stopping at Legs Inn they have authentic Polish food. And brew there own beer. Now to the U.P. The locks in Soo St. Marie are worth while seeing. Its even better if you catch a freighter going thru one of the locks. Plus they have there fair share of fudge stores across the street.
There are many Light house along the shore of Superior. A lot of them you can drive to some are in remote areas. Copper Mines where a big part of the U.P.
 Some of the memorable place I remember Start in Grand Maris There is a nice sandy beach with a board walk. The Town operates a RV and campground I Think it a first come first serve. You pull in and drive around find a spot you like and then go to the office to pay for the site. If no ones there you leave the money in a envelope and drop it in a slot. You do have to climb down a flight of stairs to get to the beach. There is a Agate Museum near by but was closed when we where there.
Head west and just before Marquette stop and see the Lakenland Sculpture Museum. Its a drive thru park with all sorts of sculptures made from scrap iron. It was free when we where there. Just a little farther west. Is kind of a unique RV park. The name is Gitche Gumee RV park. And the owner is very friendly and the sites are spread out in a wooded area. The lake is just across the road. In the city of Marquette check out the old iron ore dock.
In Ishpeming, Cliffs shaft mine Museum has a tour of the buildings and part of the mine shaft.
In Houghton, on the campus of Michigan Technological university. Seaman mineral museum has a large display of gems, minerals, and local copper. It would take a couple of hours to see all the exhibits. Cross the bridge into Hancock you will find the Quincy mine. They have a very good tour. You ride a cog railway down a steep hill then you are taken into the mine by a tractor pulled wagon. Once back on top you can see some of the equipment they used back when the mine operated. I was in awe of the size and engineering of the hoist system. It operated on steam power.
Head farther north into the Keweennaw peninsula. Before Copper Harbor, Delaware copper mine has self guided tour. On this one it would help to bring a good strong flash light. Because the lighting was not the greatest. Copper Harbor has a state campsite but we left early because it was very noisy with all the kids there. There is a esker in Copper Harbor that is a nice drive and scenic. And the only place that you can get cell coverage.
We found a nice quiet campground (at first) just west of Eagle River off of the 5 mile point Rd. Called Sunset Bay RV park. My wife like the beach for all the rocks. And that what this trip was for. She collects rocks for her jewelry making. I said this was a quiet campground, till a storm blows in. Then the lake becomes very angry. My wife grew up near Boston and she never seen waves on the ocean that we did that one night. She did not sleep very well thinking we would end up with all the ship wreaks. The next day all the rocks on the beach were gone. Wash back into the lake.
In Greenland Mi. Adventure mining co. Has 4 different tours you can take, One of them has you repelling down a shaft to a lower level.
As said before the Porcupine Mountains and Apostle islands are scenic stops.
We stayed a lot of state campsites. So we purchased a park passport which gives you free admission to state parks and a discount for state campgrounds.  I don't know if a young person would enjoy any of these places. But I enjoyed learning how people lived and worked in the past two centuries. 

 5 
 on: February 22, 2018, 02:06:36 pm 
Started by Sarz272000 - Last post by CalCruiser
Why not ask Earl to contact you when a trade-in becomes available. Find an rv customizing shop that can install or fabricate the electric beds if thats a must-have. If it was  a rare option in 2016-2017 you may be searching for a needle in a haystack.

 6 
 on: February 22, 2018, 01:52:23 pm 
Started by aimee - Last post by Fred and Paula
Thanks for the warm welcomes.

Towing is my only concern at this point. Ron I think you are correct. I would think the shorter 2552 would be better suited for towing. The 2552 rear axle to rear bumper length is 128" vs 152" for the 3100. Here is the heaviest item I need to tow. A 1976 Ford Bronco on a 16' car trailer at a combined weight of 5560 lbs. Tongue weight between 550 - 650 lbs. So far I've only seen (in videos) a 5000 lbs hitch offered on all the PCs. So last week I sent an email to PC asking if a 2552 or 3100 can be upgraded to a 7500 lb hitch. I'm still waiting their reply. The combined weight of my 1/12th scale steam locomotive, complete train and trailer is  under 3000 lbs. So there is no issue tow the train.

So if I can upgrade to a 7500 lb hitch and stay under the PCs GCVW, I should be good to go. One other thing I noticed on the PCs web site. The 2552 and 3100 have the same weight specifications 14,500 GVWR and 22,000 GCVW. Does anyone now the actual dry weights of a 2552 and 3100 model?

Fred

 7 
 on: February 22, 2018, 12:20:19 pm 
Started by aimee - Last post by ron.dittmer
Hi Fred and Paula,

Welcome to the PC forum family!

I am not an authority on this one, but I think towing a classic vehicle or steamer on a trailer would be much better towed by model 2552 rather than model 3100.  It has to do with the ratio of wheel base to over-all length.  The 2552 should provide better towing stability along with notably less weight resting on the rear axle.  I understand model 3100 with it's slide out is quite heavy all by itself.  If you don't care about a slide out, model 2552 without the optional slide out will weight approximately 600 pounds less which might also help with your heavy towing requirement.  I believe Phoenix has been installing a 7500 towing hitch as of late on all it's models.  If not, I would "special request" one.  Because of your unique towing requirement, I would also consider heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars along with a rear track bar.  They would be affordable insurance for safer travels.

Ron Dittmer

 8 
 on: February 22, 2018, 11:03:23 am 
Started by aimee - Last post by KB9OMH
Welcome to the forum! We got into RV in 2003 with a 35 ft 5th Wheel, When for 10 years, we had a lot of trouble getting into a lot of National Parks campgrounds and smaller campgrounds on the East Coast. We got our PC3100 in 2013, and have not had any problems with campgrounds since. It is very easy to park, we tow a 2007 ford Focus, with the PC3100 I don't even know it back there. Hope this will help

Jim

 9 
 on: February 22, 2018, 10:59:32 am 
Started by Sarz272000 - Last post by Sarz272000
Thanks for your reply. Very good points. I was not expecting a PC owner to rent one.  Sometimes dealers have them. I missed one last year that I could have rented

I will consider calling factory. The web inventory hadn't been updated in weeks. That may have one for sale. 

We are leery of going to factory because it is too easy to end up with a new one!

Ron and Linda

 10 
 on: February 22, 2018, 10:22:47 am 
Started by aimee - Last post by Fred and Paula
Greetings,
My wife and I have been considering RVing for a past time activity as we are nearing retirement. We have never owned a recreational vehicle, just a couple of tents which weve used occasionally raising our two children and at traveled events with one of my hobbies. My wife is more interested in a travel trailer. Based on the lower initial cost (we have a good tow vehicle) and she has experience driving vehicles with trailers. But Im more interested in a class B+ or C motorhome, because of my two hobbies. Im involved with Live Steam model railroading and we own a classic vehicle. One or both of which, require a trailer to transport. Ultimately, whatever we decide we are looking at both options.
I discovered Phoenix Cruisers about a year ago. Now after looking at numerous manufacturers and models of B+ and C motorhomes. Im pretty much set on purchasing a model 2552 or 3100 PC. So, I thought I would join the PC forum to further my research and knowledge about PCs. It will probably be a year or two before we make a purchase. So, we have a lot of time to get to know the product. This fall we are planning a trip to Hershey PA to the RV show and probably schedule a PC plant tour for on the trip home. We are looking forward to seeing a PC in person.
Fred     

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