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2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?

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CDWall

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2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« on: October 06, 2014, 01:14:38 pm »
When I went in the change my batteries I was surprised to learn there were two 6 volt batteries instead of two 12 volt batteries like I had in my 2350 that I used with a solar panel. I asked if the new unit was hooked up to support two 12 volt batteries and they said yes. So I had two 12 volt batteries put in. However, now my 150 watt solar panel does not connect to charge the batteries. The solar panel is working fine, it just doesn't charge the batteries. I took it back in to the place that changed the batteries and they said everything was hooked up properly and the solar panel was working. The current batteries are Interstate deep cycle marine RV batteries. My question is, does anybody know if there is a some problem here with the 12 volt batteries vs the 6 volt batteries that's causing my solar panel not to work now? Or any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this myself since the people who put the batteries in can't seem to figure it out?

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TomHanlon

Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2014, 05:33:11 pm »
Why are you changing your batteries? 6V are better than 12V. It only matters how they are wired together. If the shop wired them the way they were wired, they did it wrong.

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Barry-Sue

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2014, 06:46:08 pm »
CDWall

Tom is 100% correct.  If you had 2 6V batteries they would have been wired in series ( neg  to pos) . This would give you 12V total (6V + 6V).   If they installed 2 12v batteries and wired them in series (neg to pos) you would now have 24V (12v +12V).  A quick check with a volt meter or a visual inspection should be able to determine if the batteries are wired in series (correct for 6V batteries) or in parallel (correct for 12V batteries).

Here is a link to a website that talks about wiring battieries in series/parallel and why.

http://www.zbattery.com/Connecting-Batteries-in-Series-or-Parallel

Barry
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 07:04:52 pm by Barry-Sue »
Barry and Sue 
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Previous 2008 2350 w/Slide

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gl1500

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2014, 11:41:54 pm »
Several years back on our first PC, I had them take out the 12v batteries and replace them with the 6v golf cart type batteries.  We have  had them put in the 6v batteries on subsequent coaches.  The 6v wired in series provide the 12v's needed for the coach to operate and also provide much more useable power.  I noticed they may have changed over to all 6v batteries now. 
     The only problem I have had is opening the battery slider tray.  I finally had to disconnect some of the wires and reroute  them so the slider opens and closes easily.
On our previous PC I had a very hard time getting the tray to come out far enough to check the battery acid level.  Finally I gave a tug and it slid out.  After I was done, I could not get DC power on the coach.  I called Bobby at the Factory and He said to check the bank of fuses at the back of the battery comt.  Fuses were OK but noticed a heavy grounding cable hanging loose.  It had a bolt head in the cable eyelet and I found it had snapped off of the steel chassis frame.  It looked to have been over torqued.  Drilled a new hole, sanded the frame metal, installed a nut, bolt and lock washer and then painted the installation.  Power was back on. 
    Bob

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CDWall

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 10:54:07 am »
Thank you for your responses. I changed the 6 volt batteries because they were dead. In reading more on the topic, it seems like there's quite a bit of discussion on 6 volt versus 12 volt for RVs. I guess I can go buy some good 6 volt ones and replace the 12 volt if it comes right down to it but one question I had is if anybody knows if the 12 volt ones are incompatable with the hookup for the 2551 and my solar panel. At 150 watts, that's a lot of solar energy and battery recharging to be wasting. The 12 volt batteries I have in there now are working fine, they just aren't being recharged by the solar panel at all. They recharge with the generator and vehicle engine fine. 

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gl1500

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2014, 12:53:03 am »
CD Wall,
     As was previously stated the first thing to check is to see if the batteries are wired correctly, 6 volt in series or 12 in parallel.  Then you need to check the solar controller that maintains the collectors power to the batteries.  Most solar systems have a controller to make sure you do not over charge the batteries and then after they are fully charged they go to a maintenance charge.  This controller, as I am familiar with, has to be set for what is being charged.  Other than that, there is no reason your solar panel should not be charging your batteries.
   Bob

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dickreid1

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 06:40:22 pm »
 CD

The problem I have had with 12v batteries is they at times can not last through the night running the electric fan on the gas heater.  Changing to 6v batteries solved the problem. 

The first thing I did on our PC was have them install a battery tray suitable for the taller 6v batteries.

As for your solar panel charging issue, my first thought is charging voltage.  For 12v batteries a charge voltage is around 14 v.  What do you get from your solar setup?

Dick

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CDWall

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2014, 10:17:36 pm »
Thank you for your comments. It turns out the batteries were not truly hooked up to run in parallel. In this particular set up for 12 volt, there needs to be a jumper cable connecting both the positive recepticals, and the negative recepticals each. So now it appears I'm using both batteries. The solar shows it's working but the charge on the indicator for the batteries is never up to full, even after being plugged in to power for a day and they should be fully charged. I bought a volt meter today and will trouble shoot each battery more tomorrow.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 12:16:34 pm »
It will be time for new batteries for our next big trip in 2015.  I figure bigger is better so I'd like to get the largest 6V batteries that fit in the battery tray.

Are they offered nice and big to completely fill the PC battery tray like my current Walmart 12V batteries do?
Any suggestions where to buy such large 6V batteries?
Is there different 6V battery technology available like Deep Cycle, Sealed, AGM, etc?
Any idea what the various types cost?

I never shopped around for 6V batteries before so I don't know what is available and what type, brand, size is best to meet the demands of a Phoenix Cruiser that rarely gets plugged into 30amp service.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:25:29 pm by ron.dittmer »
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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 10:13:16 pm »
It will be time for new batteries for our next big trip in 2015.  I figure bigger is better so I'd like to get the largest 6V batteries that fit in the battery tray.

Are they offered nice and big to completely fill the PC battery tray like my current Walmart 12V batteries do?
Any suggestions where to buy such large 6V batteries?
Is there different 6V battery technology available like Deep Cycle, Sealed, AGM, etc?
Any idea what the various types cost?

I never shopped around for 6V batteries before so I don't know what is available and what type, brand, size is best to meet the demands of a Phoenix Cruiser that rarely gets plugged into 30amp service.

Ron, on the Winnebago forums I belong to, Costco seems to be the choice for the 6volt golf cart wet cell batteries that give the best price to performance ratio for RV use. These are not RV specific batteries, so measurements will have to be considered there
Bob & Sharon
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keelhauler

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2014, 08:31:45 am »
Quote
As for your solar panel charging issue, my first thought is charging voltage.  For 12v batteries a charge voltage is around 14 v.  What do you get from your solar setup?
 - Dick

Trojan T105 batteries that Phoenix installed on my rig indicates on their data sheets,  at least 14.8v to charge and 15.5V to equalize your batteries and 13.2V float after fully charged.
Most solar charge controllers are set up to do this correctly. Your 110-12v converter is not.

Also as noted all 6 volt batteries are almost 11" high, so that the tray must be lowered if your rig was built for 12v batteries. After April 2012 I believe Phoenix did this.

What happens to most campers is that their batteries never get fully charge so they observe that they don't get out the amp-hours that they believe they should.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 08:37:03 am by keelhauler »

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 10:36:03 am »
Could someone share what 6V battery is Phoenix installing in their new PC?  Make & model please.  I am looking into 6V batteries and want to get an idea on what Phoenix has been installing.
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AMW

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 07:20:09 pm »
Ron, The two 6V batteries Phoenix installed on my 2015 2100 are: Interstate Batteries, Deep Cycle Extreme, GC2-XHD-UTL.  The info printed on the label says "122mins@75Amps" "232 AH".  I can't pretend to know exactly what that means.
Ann W.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 07:54:37 pm »
That is just the data I was seeking.  Thank you so much.  A "Helpful" for you.

I compared it to a couple Duracell 6V golf cart batteries sold at Sam's Club.  It is hard to tell comparing specs because they don't use the exact same terminology, but your battery appears to be 10% more capable.

YOU WILL FIND THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH INTERESTING.

Earlier I called the manufacture of the Duracell batteries and spoke to a technical person there.  They said for motor home applications, a pair of smaller Sam's Club EGC2 Duracell 6V golf cart batteries hooked up in series, will "noticeably" outperform two larger Duracell deep cycle 12V hooked up in parallel.  I asked, how can that be because the 12V are so much bigger?  They assured me the two 6V "packs a punch", in their own words, so not to worry.

My question today is which is the best affordable golf cart battery to buy?  I favor conventional Lead Acid batteries only for affordability.  I consider $112 per battery at Sam's to be affordable, and I would pay a little more to get a little better.  I did not yet find a local store who sells the Interstate battery.  I also am researching other brands.  It is hard to compare because like I said earlier, they use different terminology with their specs.

One day when I get 6V batteries in-hand, it sounds like I will need to lower my battery tray to accommodate their taller height.  I don't see that being a problem as I always thought my tray was set high and can see an easy mod to lower it significantly.  If that isn't enough, I have no problem eliminating the sliding tray altogether and install a fixed floor and a means to hold the batteries in place.  I will make it work one way or the other.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 07:55:18 am by ron.dittmer »
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Re: 2013 model 2551 12 volt batteries OK?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 11:05:32 am »
My experience with 6v golf cart batteries is its difficult to prevent leakage of battery fluid from the vented caps and the subsequent corrosion of the tray, glides, and any attaching metal.  Also its critical to have easy access to view the fluid levels and maintain regularly and properly.

I will try AGM batteries next if affordable for their promise of cleanliness, ease of ownership, and charge retention.