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dry camping

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rockrat

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dry camping
« on: August 15, 2010, 04:35:32 pm »
May be some of you can help us out. We are newbies to RVing. My wife and I took our 2010 PC 2350 out dry camping for the first time this week. The first thing I noticed was that even though we have filled up the water tank to the brim, when I ran the test on the panel by the stove, it would only register 1/3 full. Is that normal? even though we had enough water to last two days of normal use.

We were staying at a campground with no hookup. In the evening we were surprise that we could not get the aircondition and microwave working. Also the electric outlet in the front of the RV on both passenger and driver side had no power coming out. We turned the generator on, hoping that the microwave and aircondition would charge up and running, but it just would not come on. My dear wife got really stress out as the sky began to open up and rain start pouring down. Naturally we cut our excursion short and returned home. But I was able to plug my RV to my home outlet and the aircondition and microwave start humming. Could anybody explain to me what we did wrong? and what we should have done instead.





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Bob Mahon

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Re: dry camping
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2010, 05:04:23 pm »
Not to worry. The AC and Microwave loads are too much for most inverters. And they'd suck a battery dry in no time if they were larger.
Need AC; use the Genny.
Same with the MW.
Don't expect too much from a couple of batteries lurking down under.

BTW, my FW tank also registers less than full when it's topped off. Same with my Alpine and others I've had. Unfortunately, it's kinda the nature of the beast.

These are probably not the answers you wanted but the good news is there's nothing wrong with your PC.
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captgw2

Re: dry camping
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2010, 06:31:51 pm »
Right. If you need a/c, microwave, elec side of water heater, you will need to start the genset. NO WAY is the inverer going to run the above. The only outlets that are available to be used thru the inverter(on 2350's) are the entertainment, galley, outside, and bath outlets. Everything else is only available thru shorepower.

We are currently dry campig in the Smoky Mountains, currently at Balsam Mountain. (70 deg here)
Please keep in mind when you are dry camping, most campgrounds have a limit on how often you can use your genset. Please respect that for your neighbours.

Regarding the inverter-if you use the inverter, you will need to put voltage BACK into the batteries sometime, whether thru the house charger or just running the coach engine. No one likes dead batteries and your fridge needs 12v to operate as well as propane.

Happy Camping,

Capt Gene
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captgw2

Re: dry camping
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2010, 06:38:02 pm »
Quote from: captgw2 on August 15, 2010, 06:31:51 pm
Right. If you need a/c, microwave, elec side of water heater, you will need to start the genset. NO WAY is the inverer going to run the above. The only outlets that are available to be used thru the inverter(on 2350's) are the entertainment, galley, outside, and bath outlets. Everything else is only available thru shorepower. If the genset WAS ruuning but you still had no power, you might want to check the overload breaker on the genset(when turned off). Open the panel for the genset, look for a black toggle switch and verify it is in the operational position. With the genset on, it should power ALL outlets.

We are currently dry campig in the Smoky Mountains, currently at Balsam Mountain. (70 deg here)
Please keep in mind when you are dry camping, most campgrounds have a limit on how often you can use your genset. Please respect that for your neighbours.

Regarding the inverter-if you use the inverter, you will need to put voltage BACK into the batteries sometime, whether thru the house charger or just running the coach engine. No one likes dead batteries and your fridge needs 12v to operate as well as propane.

Happy Camping,

Capt Gene
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TomHanlon

Re: dry camping
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2010, 07:23:09 am »
Hi Rockrat,

You wrote "We were staying at a campground with no hookup. In the evening we were surprise that we could not get the aircondition and microwave working. Also the electric outlet in the front of the RV on both passenger and driver side had no power coming out. We turned the generator on, hoping that the microwave and aircondition would charge up and running, but it just would not come on."

Three things I have learned about my 2010 PC 2310 are 1. the air conditioner and the nicrowave require to much elec. for the inverter and are not wire to it, 2. the front electric outlets are not connected to the inverter and 3. the refigerator is connected to the inverter. If the refigerator is set to "auto" and you are not plugged in, it still runs on "auto/elec" because it is running off of the batteries. It will quickly run down you batteries. You need to switch the mode to "LP only" not "auto/LP". Try it at home and you will see how it works. It is fine to leave it on "auto/elec' while driving and short stops because the engine recharges your batteries. This brings me to my final point. Your Generator needs battery power to start. So if the battery has run down below about 11amps the generator will not start. Start your engine and let it run for a minute. Then with the engine running try starting the generator. Shut off the engine and let the generator charge your batteries. Or drive the motorhome at a speed greater than 30 mph for ten miles to charge your batteries.

Your fresh water gauge and your LP are the only ones that will read correctly over the long haul. The black and gray whould work for a while before the build up on the sensors starts making them go nuts. If you scan about sensors, you will see hundreds of home remedies and products to clean your sensor. IMHO most do not work. You should have your fresh water sensor checked out as it might just be a lose wire.


Hope this helps.
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rockrat

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Re: dry camping
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 08:50:42 pm »
Thank you guys replying to my post. I am slowly understanding how the electrical system works in conjunction with the inverter. I am very happy that everyone reasures me that my microwave and A/C are running ok.

Today, I went to the place where I store my RV. The inverter reading before I touched anything was reading 11.8. I went ahead and turned on the  engine and cranked up the generator. The inverter reading jumped up to 12.8. Then I check on my Microwave and A/C. They just would not turn on. Then, I decided to turn off the car engine. I noticed right away the inverter  come down to 12.2. Remember, at this moment the generator was still running, but gradually, the inverter reading start coming down one decimal at a time. Though I am a newbie and not mechanical nor electrically inclined , my thinking  is that the inverter was not converting power to the A/C and microwave. Please enlighten me and give me some suggestion of what is going on. Could it be the inverter that is going bad? Thanks for all the help.
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bobander

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Re: dry camping
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 11:29:13 pm »
The AC and microwave do not run off the inverter; however, they should turn on with the generator running unless the main or individual breakers are off -- have you checked the breakers?

As for the inverter readings, sounds like the battery disconnect switch is off.  When the battery disconnect is off or disconnected, the engine can still charge the batteries but the generator or shore power cannot.  This is actually a good thing in that you can keep the batteries from overcharging while on shore power,  although not a serious issue with the three stage converter/charger.  The inverter is reading the battery voltage with the battery disconnect switch on or off.  Try this experiment, with the generator running or on shore power, watch the inverter voltage reading as you turn the battery disconnect switch on and off, if the battery is low at say 11.8, then it will jump up to a higher charging voltage when the switch is connected or on.

Hope this helps,
Bob
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TomHanlon

Re: dry camping
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 08:11:46 am »
Rockrat,

I just went out to my PC to test your condition. Inverter reading was 12.2, I started the generator by pressing the start button and holding it. The proper way is to press and hold the stop until the light comes on, it is now primed, then press the start button. I wanted to try it the way most folks seem to do it by just using the start button. I then waited about a minute for the generator to kick in and for the microwave to start blinking it's message. I hit 1 and start. It lightup and then displayed done. Next I hit 2 and the same thing happened. I could not hear it running because of the generator noise. I did not have anything to put into it, so I could not run it longer. Now that I am thinking about it, I guess I could of used a cup of water in it. Oh well. I then went to the thermostat and turned on the A/C. It started right up. I tried to turn off the battery disconnect with the genterator running and it would not turn off. After I shut down the generator, I was able to turn off the battery disconnect. I think Bobander is on to something here in his post above.

Over the weekend we went camping. When we went to leave, we stopped at the dump station and the electric dump handles would not work. I got under the motorhome and tried to pull the black water handle. It would not move. I tried the gray handle and it did open. I have added a spigot in the hose line to allow me to break the water vacum after dumping. I had just proudly shown it to my friends before leaving my site.  (nod) After getting the gray value open and still laying on the ground by the motorhome, I turned on the pump. Yep, you guess it, the pump worked, pumping gray water out the spigot all over me.  >(  I did not know that gray water could smell that bad. To top it off the wife was standing there watching the whole thing. From now on when I remove the cap on the hose it is going on the spigot before I do anything else. I went to the bath house and washed up, but it was still a long ride home.  >:( That evening at home, my wife noticed that the battery disconnect was off. Turned it back on and everything works. Two showers and a day later it has become a funny learning experence.


I would not assume that because someone else had a bad inverter, that you have one also. Theirs was several months ago. Call the factory and ask them about your problems. As you probley already know they are very helpful.
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bobander

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Re: dry camping
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 12:58:16 pm »
TomHanlon wrote:
"I tried to turn off the battery disconnect with the genterator running and it would not turn off. After I shut down the generator, I was able to turn off the battery disconnect."

I have discovered that the battery disconnect light is deceiving.  On my 2010 2551 model, the light stays on even with the batterys disconnected when on generator or shore power.  I have confirmed this by testing at the relay under the passenger bed.  The battery side of the relay is wired to the inverter, engine charge line, macerator pump, and slide motor.  The other side of the relay is wired to the converter/charger and all 12v circuits in the converter panel.  The relay is a latching style relay that stays in either the closed or open position without voltage.  It is operated by the rocker switch on the disconnect panel at the door.  The red led indicator light on the disconnect panel is wired to the converter/charger side of the relay; so when the converter/charger is powerd by shore or generator, the 12v circuits and the indicator light are powered even when the relay is open and the batterys disconnected.  When there is no shore or generator, there is no 12v power to the convertor/charger side of the relay and the indicator light goes out when the relay is opened to disconnect the battery from the 12v cicuits in the conveter/charger panel.

You can confirm this by watching the inverter voltage when you open and close the relay while on shore or generator power.  If the battery is not fully charged you will see the voltage jump up to a higher charging level when the relay is closed and drop back when open.  On the disconnect panel, "use" is closed and "store" is open.  When I am plugged in to shore power while stored in my garage for an extended period, I will disconnect the batterys from the converter/charger to keep from over charging, may not be necessary with the 3 stage charger but I do it just to be safe.  Since it is not obvious that the relay is open because the light is still on, I will occasionally push the store side of the switch just to be sure.

I hope this makes some sense, I may have rambled on too much here.

Bob
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TomHanlon

Re: dry camping
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2010, 01:52:22 pm »
Bob

I now understand. Thanks.
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rockrat

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Re: dry camping
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2010, 06:30:53 pm »
I would like to thank everybody that responded to my post, especially Tom, Bob and Gene. I have been resisting calling kermit for the last couple of days even though my Microwave and A/C problem had not been resolved, for one thing I know the pearl of wisdom that you guys shared with me will stay in my mind a whole lot longer than the easy way out of making the phone call.

But I did call up Kermit. After I told him of my problem, the first thing he said was that sometimes when they deliver a new RV, they may not have turn on a switch to the generator. Here is the gist of it. There is an outside compartment on the driver side under the slideout, once you unlock it, there is the green color Onan Generator, flip the two black level up and drop the outer panel out. There is a black color toggle switch that controls the breaker to the generator. The toggle switch should be turn towards you. I followed Kermit's instruction and cranked up the generator. It took a few second later and the A/C and microwave started to power up. One important thing that Kermit mentioned was that if the generator trip, the toggle switch turn toward you will engage the breaker again. I was looking at the breaker panel box that was under the bed to see if one of the breaker was tripped.

By the way, Kermit has been very gracious, and patience with walking me through the whole ordeal. I am glad he is running the show at Phoenix Cruiser. One last thing, he did tell me how to work on the water tank level indicator light. I will wait till this weekend before I can work on that problem before I put a post on it. 

Donald
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mciai2000

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Re: dry camping
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 01:42:53 pm »
Sorry for your troubles.  I had the same problem when my unit was delivered. I looked around and saw that the black breaker on the generator was in the off positon and I flipped it to on and bingo, I had power.  I figured you had the same problem and was going to respond but captain Gene mentioned the same exact thing Kermit told you to do in one of the first replies. I figured  you tried that and it did not work.

Anyway, happy trails.

DJM
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: dry camping
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 04:52:17 pm »
Yep.....check the breaker on the generator itself.  It is not easy to find, but it is there.

The microwave oven and roof-top a/c unit will not work without the generator running (with breaker set properly) or plug-in power.

A dry camping tip......I don't know about the newer inverters, but my 3 year old Tripp-Lite inverter consumes 12 amps of battery juice, just sitting idle.  I turn on my inverter only when inverted 110v is needed.  Otherwise it's turned off.  My batteries are so much happier that way.

My post here explains it in great detail:  Click On This Text
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:56:49 pm by ron.dittmer »
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