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Really?

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catsaplenty

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 3/17
  • Model: 3100
  • ModelYear: 2017
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: Full body paint, mostly silver - lower gray. No decals. No swirls
  • Location: FL and everywhere
Re: Really?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2017, 12:14:06 am »
donc13 - I have not laid out my specific questions because they have to do with my particular order, options and pricing and how those were set up with the company.   I have come to the forum before when I had a question about the RV, how things work or why some folks picked some options.  And the folks in the forum have been very helpful and willing to step up and help with information.  In this case the questions are not items the forum could answer.  Thanks for the response.


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2 Frazzled

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    • Spirit of the Woods
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: May 2013
  • Model: 2552
  • ModelYear: 2013
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sunlit & Cherry
  • ExtColor: Sunlit
  • Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)
Re: Really?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2017, 07:51:21 am »
Our rig was also started sooner than we thought it would be. The main reason being the paint shop. I seem to recall that Phoenix told us that it can take 3-4 weeks to get her painted. They are at the mercy of the paint shop and how busy that company is. Since we had full body paint, they knew it would take a while. So Phoenix budgets their build time, plus the paint time, plus the time it goes to yet another shop to get the jacks installed (if so ordered) THEN they get it back to do final touch ups to interior, inspect to verify build matches order, adjust doors and bins for proper closure etc., and they include time to do a thorough cleaning inside and out, right down to flushing the tanks. There may be other steps in there also that I don't know or recall.

We also sent parts to Phoenix to be installed but I ordered them and shipped them immediately after signing the order for our rig so that they were on hand and ready to go when Phoenix reached that point in the build. They were running antenna cables for us so I had to have them there before the electrician did his thing, which is early in the build.

My advice to those who are planning to order or just ordered, is to assume the build starts soon and get the parts to Phoenix. There is probably a two month lead time on rigs with full body paint. I don't know how it affects those with lower body paint.

hutch42 - the "average years experience" for Phoenix doesn't reflect that many key employees have been with Kermit for over 30 years. They oversee those other folks.
John, Holly, and sometimes Chloe.
Travel Blog: Spiritofthewoods.net

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GoPhoenix

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 12/2010
  • Model: 3100
  • ModelYear: 2011
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Slate grey/Cherry
  • ExtColor: Full body grey
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Really?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 08:36:58 am »
We have owned two PCs.  The first, a 2900, no longer made (pic below).  Bought it from a dealer before the big RV industry collapse and before Phoenix went factory direct (that dealer went under too).  The second, a 3100, we ordered from the factory – all done over the phone.  Requested several mods.

It never occurred to me to request pics or updates, just an approximate finish date.  Got a phone call when it was done.  Drove up and completed the trade.  Everything was exactly as we requested.  Never any anguish, drama, or problems.  Had a few problems later as expected, a couple minor, and one not so minor, all quickly resolved by the factory.

A happy camper here.  I always say “Go Phoenix.”
I remember very few of the things that I’ve spent money to buy, but I remember all of the places that I’ve spent money to see.

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Bruce

Re: Really?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2017, 03:13:23 pm »
Our rig was also started sooner than we thought it would be. The main reason being the paint shop. I seem to recall that Phoenix told us that it can take 3-4 weeks to get her painted. They are at the mercy of the paint shop and how busy that company is. Since we had full body paint, they knew it would take a while. So Phoenix budgets their build time, plus the paint time, plus the time it goes to yet another shop to get the jacks installed (if so ordered) THEN they get it back to do final touch ups to interior, inspect to verify build matches order, adjust doors and bins for proper closure etc., and they include time to do a thorough cleaning inside and out, right down to flushing the tanks. There may be other steps in there also that I don't know or recall.

I agree with Holly's description of the factory's final touch ups, with one exception.  We were told that the flushing of tanks would normally be an owner responsibility.  Since we were taking delivery in California at a location that had no place to dump even fresh water, Earl honored our request to have the factory do that for us.
--Bruce

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2 Frazzled

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    • Spirit of the Woods
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: May 2013
  • Model: 2552
  • ModelYear: 2013
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sunlit & Cherry
  • ExtColor: Sunlit
  • Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)
Re: Really?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2017, 12:43:19 pm »
Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.
John, Holly, and sometimes Chloe.
Travel Blog: Spiritofthewoods.net

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catsaplenty

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 3/17
  • Model: 3100
  • ModelYear: 2017
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: Full body paint, mostly silver - lower gray. No decals. No swirls
  • Location: FL and everywhere
Re: Really?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2017, 09:39:38 am »
I am here just to complete the story.  It gives me no pleasure to report the story was not the happy ending so many of you thought, and I hoped, it could be.

When Kyle did send some pictures it was immediately clear they had not done the build as it was supposed to be.  First glaring item – they had glued in the kitchen mirror when it was not supposed to be there.  PC warns you to make sure if you don’t want the mirror to say that up front as it is near impossible to remove.  That lead to conversations and questions about other items they were supposed to do but were not covered in pictures.

They confirmed they did have my specifics in regards to the mirror, the way the cabinet doors were to swing, the pantry, the under bed storage area – yeah it was not just one thing they didn’t do right.  They accepted it was their fault.  They told me (though it took some push back from me) that they would replace the wall where the mirror was.  They would replace the trim pieces in the wood work where they had created holes etc by putting stuff in wrong.   When I checked back with them to see how it was going and if we were still on schedule then for the pick up, I was told everything was fine. 

When I arrived to pick it up – nothing more was said about the repairs.  But in fact they had not replaced the wall nor the wood trim.  They had tried to cover up holes with more of the tape they use to make it look like it is the real wood.  Apparently they thought I was just too stupid to notice.  When I told Earl how I felt about them not doing what they agreed to and not even having the guts to tell me, his comment was that he thought what they did looked OK.

So no I am not at all happy with the people and their meaningless promises.  I do not believe that I should have patched items in my new RV that are there just because they got their part of the process wrong.  But once you arrive for pick up, you are at a disadvantage – where would you go while they tear it all apart, even if you could make them do what they had two weeks to do and chose not to.  What about getting back to work.  And for me that after I got to the pickup to learn my father had gone into the hospital which affects whether I can stand and fight.  (Thankfully that part ended well.)

To the gentlemen who have had such good rapport with Earl, I am happy for you that your builds went so well.  I suspect the difference in experience comes back to a basic issue in how some groups are treated.  Yes they can go out of their way to accommodate when they want to.  Or like me – I can spend lots of money to travel there, for a date they picked, and then find at the end of the day I cannot get a test drive – being told that “it drives fine.”  Then when they were in PA, and could have done something special like delayed their departure by an hour so I could drive it there (having forked over the $5000 deposit) they instead made me go to the expense of another trip to come to Elkhart JUST for the test drive – of the same coach they had in PA. 

I put up with this because I loved the feel of the living area of the PC that much.  Because I hope and pray that it is built and will perform over time as well as so many of you have indicated.  But I can not in any way excuse or understand this type of treatment of a customer, the lack of attention to the order they accepted and mostly to the lack of integrity shown by the falsehoods I was told.  Don’t patronize this “little lady” – deal with me honestly.

To those looking at a PC I would say make sure everything is in writing. Don’t be put off by them being too busy at shows, etc. Instead keep on them to get the answers you need.  If you are having items done differently, get an agreement to have pictures done as the items are put together.  Mostly you need to decide how hard you can and will push back if you find they did not do what they promised. If they find it easy to treat any customer less than honestly, they can do it to any of you in matters big or small.

For now I will try to put this behind me, to try to get past my disappointment in my patches, hope that the service end of the business is far more reliable, and hope to just enjoy the future with my RV and meeting some of you folks out there on the road.

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Janey

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 8/19/14
  • Model: 2350 Ford
  • ModelYear: 2014
  • Slide: Yes
  • ExtColor: Cafe
  • Location: Muskegon, MI
Re: Really?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2017, 12:39:44 pm »
Well, that's one unhappy customer out of a bunch of deleriously happy customers. I've had people dis my family doctor, my dentist, the hospital that did my knees, even my dogs vet. I'm not much affected by others opinions other than my own. My experiences with Earl and the gang have been perfect. In fact we're thinking about the 25' model.

Janey (aka princess)
Suzanna Jane (aka Janey) and Sid Shazly

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donc13

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 03/2015
  • Model: 2551
  • ModelYear: 2015
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Nightscape/Hickory
  • ExtColor: White/Nightscape
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Really?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2017, 02:17:14 pm »
I can only relate our own experience with Phoenix.

From beginning to end, Kermit, Earl, Kyle, Carol and everyone else at Phoenix has been a pleasure to deal with.  They were all very friendly, accommodating and honest in their dealings with us.

As to the mirror in the kitchen.  Patti HATES mirrors.  Despises them, until the first time she cleaned it with Windex..FAR easier to clean than a wall or tile!

---
Don and Patti

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Ron Dittmer

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    • My 2007 2350 Phoenix Cruiser
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: June 2007
  • Model: 2350 Ford
  • ModelYear: 2007
  • Slide: No
  • IntColor: Cherry Green&Gray
  • ExtColor: Full Body Gray
  • Location: Illinois
Re: Really?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2017, 04:35:42 pm »
May I share my experience with the kitchen mirror adjacent to the stove?

That mirror was offered a year or two after our 2007 model year so we did not have that mirror.  I really liked the idea of having one for the extra lighting and easy-clean surface from food-splash.  I later was able to work out getting a mirror from Phoenix.  I glued it on just as Phoenix instructed, but the dang thing fell off the first time I drove the motor home in the neighborhood.  I had properly prepared the wall and the backside of the mirror, and I glued it with a slight gap to the counter top so any counter top movement while driving would not make contact with the mirror.  I was able to removed the adhesive off the wall with great difficulty and patience without damage to the wall and left enough alone.  I eventually damaged the mirror where I was storing it at home so that is the end of my mirror experience.

I really did appreciate the lighting it offered, reflecting the light from the hood, and it opened up the appearance of the RV's interior.  I loved that mirror if only for a moment.

catsaplenty, I am sorry for your experience, but if I could have told you while you were there, I would have said to have Phoenix put the mirror back on.  It really is a nice feature to have......as long as it stays on the wall.  :)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 04:39:05 pm by ron.dittmer »
Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

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catsaplenty

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 3/17
  • Model: 3100
  • ModelYear: 2017
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: Full body paint, mostly silver - lower gray. No decals. No swirls
  • Location: FL and everywhere
Re: Really?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2017, 05:24:15 pm »
Ron - I had a stainless steel plate for that wall for them to install which only took a few screws - an item they had helped me get the right measurements for and had given me the internet address for the place to purchase it.  Part of what made it so ridiculous that they put the mirror up!  I actually had this come out further to the front of the lower cabinet for more protection from food splashes.  it still provides some reflection though not as much as the mirror.

And again - for all of you who had a great experience - I am very happy for you.  I think all customers should get what they paid for without needless hassle.

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Dynadave

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: Used
  • PurchDate: 10/2017
  • Model: 2350 Sprinter
  • ModelYear: 2014
  • Slide: No
  • IntColor: Cherry
  • ExtColor: Sand
  • Location: Florida
Re: Really?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2017, 09:29:36 pm »
I have always found the people at Phoenix very nice to deal with, in fact I think they are far more reputable and reliable than  most businesses. Unfortunately only one side of the story is being told.
2014 Sprinter 2350

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2 Frazzled

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    • Spirit of the Woods
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: May 2013
  • Model: 2552
  • ModelYear: 2013
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sunlit & Cherry
  • ExtColor: Sunlit
  • Location: On the road full time (prev. Maryland)
Re: Really?
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2017, 09:32:45 am »
Catsaplenty, I am sorry it did not come out as well as we all hoped and reassured you that it would. Phoenix has gone to great ends to satisfy many of us and I'm sorry that they did not carry through on their promises to you. I don't know what else you could have done short of refusing delivery of the rig as it was not as you ordered. I know that in itself would have added to your stress. I hope that your future joy with your PC will help dull the pain of the process of getting it. I hope you have many happy traveling adventures and that we get to meet sometime down the road.
John, Holly, and sometimes Chloe.
Travel Blog: Spiritofthewoods.net

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RheaNL

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: October 4, 2012
  • Model: 2100
  • ModelYear: 2013
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Dusk
  • ExtColor: Dusk lower
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Really?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2017, 06:36:10 pm »
Catsaplenty, I feel you pain, but not with my PC.  I did not custom order but love the PC we purchased.  My empathy comes from a board and stone house we had built 18 months ago by a very reputable builder.  Everything was in writing include precise diagrams and drawings that we all signed off on.  So much DID NOT happen as designed, was poorly done or just plain WRONG.  We want what we want and thus the reason for going to a reputable quality custom company. (I got some of that same "I think it looks fine." reaction.) Much of what was wrong with my house could not be corrected and I have to live with it as is.  I have gotten past most of it and hope you can to as you find the joy of travel in your PC.  I just try to ignore the remaining "misfires and hang something over the patches.

Happy travels and hope we cross paths some time and can compare stories and laugh about the initial pain.

Nicki

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catsaplenty

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  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: 3/17
  • Model: 3100
  • ModelYear: 2017
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Sand
  • ExtColor: Full body paint, mostly silver - lower gray. No decals. No swirls
  • Location: FL and everywhere
Re: Really?
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2017, 07:14:58 am »
Thanks Nicki.  Changing over to living in the RV- I do hope to find many folks along the way to swap some good stories with and good times.  A whole new kind of life awaits me and my pets.

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jatrax

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    • Zigzag Mountain Art
  • OwnPC: Yes
  • NewUsed: New
  • PurchDate: November 2016
  • Model: 2552
  • ModelYear: 2017
  • Slide: Yes
  • IntColor: Graystone
  • ExtColor: Graystone
  • Location: Oregon Mountains
Re: Really?
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2017, 09:43:41 am »
Catsaplenty, I just read your rig description on the left and realized I saw your coach at the factory when I picked up mine.  The paint job really stands out compared to all the swirls and stuff on the regular paint.  It was sitting in the "almost finished" area next to the office door and I asked Earl about the paint job while we were waiting for my coach to come back from alignment.

I am sorry things did not all go as planned, I certainly feel your pain there as I had a number of things that also ended up differently than what I thought.  But in the long run I have a good coach that is well built where it counts and I'm sure you will find the same.

I really like and respect the folks at Phoenix, everyone I dealt with seemed genuinely interested in making sure I was happy.  But they are not perfect and one area that could be improved is with custom modifications and requests.  The process is far too casual without enough written paperwork and check points during the process to make sure everything is done the way the customer wanted.  Ideally, each custom modification would be written as part of the build sheet and flagged in red or something so the builders notice it is an exception.  Those guys could build a standard rig in their sleep and changes on the build sheet really need to jump out and be noticeable. 

It is also the customers responsibility to go over that build sheet and make sure everything they want is listed.  On a first rig I suspect buyers are not as savvy as they should be in this area, I know I was not.  If I have another one built I know I could do a much better job of following the process through.