Hi again Madonna, we stayed at Elkhart campground highly recommend. It rained steady for the first two days so not much testing of outside things of the coach. However we had no leaks so it worked out lol. The ding in paint had to be taken back to the paint shop so that took a few hours. The other issues took maybe ten minutes plus a test drive. After owning a big pusher (used) we had LOTS of issues with it so we were not that upset with these minor issues.

Things I'd change.  Shelves over the beds for phones, Ipads. We did put ac/dc plugs. A dedicated  solar monitor like Bogart 2030. I'd see if they could put a double recliner instead of the pullout bed/recliner its a pain to pullout and use as a recliner. We will never need an extra bed.

Make sure to put all the custom work in writing with very specifics on what, where you want changes. Then there are not misunderstandings. Ours were minor and worked out but not as I envisioned.

Merry Christmas!

John

They must have changed the sofa, on our 2015, 2551 each side reclines separately and does so electrically.  The only time you needed to pull out the bottom piece (very easy to do) was to make the sofa into a bed.

I'd see if they could put a double recliner instead of the pullout bed/recliner its a pain to pullout and use as a recliner.

They must have changed the sofa, on our 2015, 2551 each side reclines separately and does so electrically.

No it is the same.  But I agree with it being a pain to use as a recliner.  Defining recliner as has having a foot rest that comes up when you recline, which is what I expected.  The recliner/bed in our 2552 is nice as a bed and as a sofa.  But when I want a recliner I want the foot rest and I don't want to have to crawl on the floor to find the latch and pull out the foot rest.

So I agree with @jwg1199, I would rather have a pair of nice recliners and skip the pull out bed. 

I’ve been looking and don’t see many members here who own a 2018 PC.  I have used the search feature and maybe I need to use a more sophisticated search string.  I would really like to touch base with any 2018 owners to check on their experiences with delivery and impressions of their rigs so far. Thanks in advance!

Madonna

Hello, we took delivery at the end of September for our 2018 pc 2100 and regret not spending more time at the factory....the day of pickup they were doing other deliveries, taking trades and selling rigs.  We were experienced RVers and felt camping at Elkhart would reveal any major problems.  While most issues were minor, it was clear that the PDI was perfunctionary at best.  Heading back to California, the arm rest of the sofa detached itself, one of the rollers of the sofa came loose and left a large scratch on the wood floor, the shower rail wasn't caulked so water was running onto the floor, the water pump wasn't secured to the floor and almost jumped out of it's bracket, light in bathroom kept shorting out due to loose wire, and the Sani Con hose was missing brackets.  The Ford chassis had no A/C or heat...so yeah, you might want to spend as much time as you possibly can at the factory and assume no PDI was performed.
Having wrote all this, we are pleased with our decision to purchase our unit for the floor plan, width and manuverability and drivability.  The factory is very responsive with warranty issues making every claim effortless....congrats!

YIKES!  Poor workmanship on top of no PDI.  I sure hope we don't get a lemon.  We aren't the handy sort.  We figured we would stay at the factory for two days if they will let us then go nearby to camp for another two days.  We will have a spring pickup, so John will be able to crawl on top and underneath of the whole rig.  I hope he is able to catch any problems!

Sadly, one of the (few) disappointments we had at pickup was a similar story.  Lots of little things, and a couple of really big things, that should have been caught at PDI.  I guess we should consider that the DEALER is supposed to do the PDI and take the cost of that out of their profit.  I understand when LTV allowed pickup at the factory they charged the customer extra for performing the PDI at the factory instead of at the dealer.

I cannot say I like the situation, but in Phoenix's case we are buying 'factory direct' and need to do our own PDI.  Hopefully this will change in the future as the new owners learn the ropes and hear the complaints.

But in the mean time anyone picking up a new rig should expect to examine every single item with a fine tooth comb.  Nothing should be expected to work or even be installed without verification.

Due to time constraints we were able to stay only one night at the Elkhart fairground RV park, but I wish it could have been at least two or three.  We put a tablet on the counter and every time we found an issue we wrote it down.  When we pulled back into the factory the next morning we handed our list to Bobby and the guys and they jumped right on it.  They had everything on the list done in a couple hours.  So they are amazingly responsive to getting issues fixed.  But I wish they would spend a little more time fixing those before the customer picks up.

Sadly, one of the (few) disappointments we had at pickup was a similar story.  Lots of little things, and a couple of really big things, that should have been caught at PDI.  I guess we should consider that the DEALER is supposed to do the PDI and take the cost of that out of their profit.  I understand when LTV allowed pickup at the factory they charged the customer extra for performing the PDI at the factory instead of at the dealer.

I cannot say I like the situation, but in Phoenix's case we are buying 'factory direct' and need to do our own PDI.  Hopefully this will change in the future as the new owners learn the ropes and hear the complaints.

But in the mean time anyone picking up a new rig should expect to examine every single item with a fine tooth comb.  Nothing should be expected to work or even be installed without verification.

Due to time constraints we were able to stay only one night at the Elkhart fairground RV park, but I wish it could have been at least two or three.  We put a tablet on the counter and every time we found an issue we wrote it down.  When we pulled back into the factory the next morning we handed our list to Bobby and the guys and they jumped right on it.  They had everything on the list done in a couple hours.  So they are amazingly responsive to getting issues fixed.  But I wish they would spend a little more time fixing those before the customer picks up.

Jatrax
To your excellent point regarding the PDI, we feel you shouldn't have to sacrifice PDI because you buy factory direct....especially obvious quality control issues; particularly in our case when there was extensive and definitive check off sheets supplied by Phoenix to us that we're either not initialed nor in some cases missing altogether.  We hope any new owners taking delivery will be extremely thorough when taking delivery of their new PC.

Man this kind of stuff is unacceptable! Remember the days before American auto makers had foreign competition? You bought a new GM , Chrysler or Ford product and they gave you a note pad and pencil to make your list of things that you find wrong. After a few weeks when you think you’ve found everything you bring it back for warranty work. This isn’t the 60’s anymore and this lack of quality control is inexcusable.  They should have already been gone thru and any squaks fixed.

All this is why out of the four RVs we've owned, only one was new...a Casita TT which, like Phoenix sells only factory direct.  We had only two factory defects to take care of, but unknown to us, Casita sells their trailers with many necessary mods not part of the deal.  We found out after taking possession that the molded bathroom recessed shelves had no retaining bar over the front; the screen door had no grab bar; etc.  We have carefully purchased our three pre-owned RVs with careful research, cautious restraint and some luck.  We have had to put money into some repairs and voluntary  upgrades, but most of it was foreseen and planned for.  Fawkes was such a purchase.   

Hi all,

The last few posts about quality control, PDI are hitting close to home for us. Our coach is very close to being finished after eight months.

Owning businesses for over forty years I find it some what amusing at the naivety displayed regarding getting what you pay for, quality control, or what ever you want to call it.
PC has, in my mind, done the math. They have discovered its cost effective to not worry about doing that perfect job, a small percentage will complain, they will make it right. I suspect that the emotional attachment to buying something like a motorhome would outweigh the majority to complain of problems. Cost effective for PC. Lets face it, you could give an average sixteen year old a check list, some training, and have them do an acceptable final inspection, any problems, fix them, before its called complete.
We as consumers used to allow this, or had no options(Joseph, re 60’s auto’s great example). This is a consumer problem, step up to the plate as a consumer and insist you get what you were told you were going to get and what you paid for! Expect it, insist on it. Would it be acceptable to you to buy a gallon of milk,either from a grocery store, or dairy farmer(factory), get it home and find you only got three quarts? Funny thing is most people would not go back to the store to get their money back!!!

Jatrax  "Nothing should be expected to work or even be installed without verification” . Is this really what should happen when you are spending $100k+ I hope not. Is this where we are these days?

The last five years have been a boom for most businesses, RV’s huge. If you have been around long enough you understand the economy will change and swing the other way.
The inter web is leveling the playing field quickly, I would think any new business owner would be paying close attention, this is not the 60’s… only the best innovater and savvy will survive.
Doug

@biglegmax while I do not really disagree with your post in principle things are not quite that cut & dried.  A motorhome is different than a lot of purchases both in the very large cost and in the complexity of the purchase.  I compare it more to an aircraft or boat rather than a gallon of milk or even an automobile.  Many things look and work just fine until you shake them down the road at 60mph for several 100 miles.  No factory inspection is ever going to catch those items.

Some of the things on a PDI cannot be checked out until the customer takes delivery and the customer should be involved in that PDI so they understand how things work.  In many cases final fit and adjustment is to the customer taste.

The RV industry as a whole has a horrible reputation for workmanship.  I've been to RV shows where cabinets were falling apart, doors misaligned, windows would not open and so on.  And those items were on the display model that the salesperson was bragging up the quality on.  We bought from Phoenix because of all the coaches we looked at I felt the workmanship was the best we had seen.  But that certainly does not mean they are perfect.

My comment about checking everything simply means that you as the customer must be part of the PDI process.  Whether this is right or wrong is immaterial, it is the way it is right now.  Had I been more experienced when we picked up our coach 90% of the issues would have been fixed before we pulled off the lot.  Instead my inexperience and a time crunch meant we drove off with items that were not checked and had to be fixed later.

Should Phoenix have a more thorough Quality Control procedure?  Yes, absoultely.  And I know the new owners are aware of this issue.  Is that going to send every rig out the door perfect?  No.  Not possible unless they do as aircraft companies do and spent weeks test flying a bird before it is released to the customer. 

The best we can do right now as a customer is verify and inspect every item before driving away from Elkhart.  As many, many customers have noted Phoenix goes above and beyond to make the customer happy and fix any issues.  But the customer MUST be a part of that process.

When discussing some of my issues with Kermit he asked "Do you like the coach?"  I said yes but there are some things that need fixed.  And he said "then we are fine, as long as you are happy with the coach we can fix anything else."

Long ago when Irene and I were youngsters at age 25, married 5 years and just became new parents, we bought our first motor home, a brand new 1984 Toyota Mirage HERE for $12,255.  It was about the same money as a large new 4 door Oldsmobile we had our eye on at that time.  It had no appliances of any kind.  The sink water supply was a 2.5 gallon water jug, had a hand pump, and it drained out on the street.  It had a built-in ice box so no fridge, no bathroom so no tanks, no furnace & no stove so no propane, no a/c, and no generator.  Even the Toyota cab was stripped with a manual transmission, no a/c, no radio, and no power steering .  I remember back in the fall of 1983, I assumed the quality of a motor home was going to be the same as any other vehicle.  My eyes were wide open upon delivery, and I dealt with the lack of quality for the 24 years we owned it.  By the time I sold it, it was a different motor home.

Fast forward 24 years later, we took delivery of our new 2007 Phoenix Cruiser.  I anticipated similar disappointments x100 given all the intracacies and on-board systems of a self-contained rig.  We drove to the factory to get our PC.  Two things Phoenix did for us when we were there.  1) We had them shorten the tail pipe extension.  2) There was a little silver paint over-spray on the left-front tire which they quickly cleaned off for us.  We did not test anything.  After a walk-around review, we just drove our PC home 3 hours away.  Back home, I recall doing the following things myself to make things right.

- tighten up some latches & knobs and such
- straighten a crooked duplex outlet
- vacuumed all the nooks and crannies of construction dust & small debris

My inspection at home was a different experience than that of the Mirage.  Simply stated, I was impressed.  Things fit right, were finished right, were caulked cleanly, and all systems tested to work fine (or so I thought, read on).

A few months later, during our first major trip camping out west at 10,000 foot elevation at dusk the temp dropped quickly.  I forgot to test the furnace and it did NOT work.  In desperation, I removed the exterior access cover to find a switch inside.  I flipped it and the furnace worked, so all was well.

I have done a lot of things to our PC since we bought it.  I feel only one thing I did corrected a design problem which was adding a battery compartment splash shield seen HERE.  Every other change I made was done to improve our RV experience.  You who own PCs with the battery compartment adjacent to the rear axle, did Phoenix install a splash shield for your battery compartment?  I am curious if they addressed the problem.

We had a great experience with regard to the quality of our PC.  That was in May of 2007, not in January 2018.  Maybe things have changed some since back then, but then again...maybe not.  Anything that can be remedied in a few hours by PC experienced staff is not detrimental to me.  It's the things that can't ever be fixed right that are detrimental, like general poor workmanship where things are designed to fit or align right, but just don't and can never be corrected properly.

Back around 2008, I recall people on a general RV forum complaining that sun light beamed inside their brand new rig's hanging kitchen cabinets where the wall met the ceiling.  The RV dealer resolved the problem with caulk.  In my opinion, it's so many different horror stories like that one example that determines quality where it really counts.  Not a few hour visit to the PC factory to have Kermit's team now under new ownership, adjust or tighten up things to be made right.

Still it would be nice if Phoenix would fill the hot water tank and a few extra gallons in the fresh water tank and test the various systems before the new owner shows up.  Unfortunately for Phoenix, they would also need to drain everything and clean it all up 100% to look like brand new again.

We picked up our 2017 2552 in late August, 2017. We traded in our 2016 2351 so just parked the two along side each other and spent several hours swapping "stuff".  Earl was busy so Kyle did the check out. Because we owned one we didn't need much help. We had the factory send the 2552 out for alignment. It did not handle very well on the way home. I had a local shop do it over and now handles very well. So don't bother. Have a good local shop do your alignment. Enroute home, we heard a vibration on acceleration which turned out to be the heat shield over the exhaust. Two self tapping screws fixed it.  The funny part: We we got home, I was looking it over and was looking at the back end. Something just didn't look right. Looked and looked. Ah hah. The drag wheels were missing. Enroute home from Sisters, we stopped at the factory and had the new style slide seals installed even tho we didn't have a leak, drag wheels installed and two latches installed on the pantry door to keep it from popping open while underway. Bob gave me six extra latche's "in case". And that's it on problems. 

I need to chime in on the quality control, because when we picked up our RV at the end of last June there was a long list of things that I feel should have been caught and corrected before we arrived to pickup and inspect our 2910T. I hope the new owners are monitoring this forum and do something about the quality control for future customers. I'm still don't understand how most of the workmanship on the RV can be so good, and on that same RV there are many examples of very poor workmanship; and no one caught it and corrected it!

Jatrax, comparible o the aircraft industry? Really? I spent over 30 years tied to the aircraft industry and can tell you they have many levels of quality control. Entire departments where that’s their only job.  As an example the F15 built in St Luis on its very first flight the test pilot begins with a Viking take off. Every Squak is addressed before that first flight. Sheeesh, we could only wish the rv industry had even one person focused on quality. This isn’t new to PC either. Ron lost his Macerator pump to a screw in the system. In the aircraft industry that’s called FOD. Every screw has to be accounted for, every tool along the way.

Notice how Ford turned itself around after Allan Mullay took over as CEO, previously the CEO of commercial aircraft division for Boeing.

Quality needs to be demanded or take your money elsewhere.

Quality needs to be demanded or take your money elsewhere.

While agree, where would you like us to take our money?

LTV, supposedly one of the top notch builders has a Facebook page that is a constant stream of complaints.  LTV was our first choice and after seeing all the complaints really glad we changed our minds.  We looked at a good number of builders before choosing Phoenix, and one of the reasons chose them was the relatively higher level of workmanship. 

comparable to the aircraft industry? Really? I spent over 30 years tied to the aircraft industry and can tell you they have many levels of quality control

Sure why not?  My point was simply that without extensive testing, ON THE ROAD,  QC is not going to catch everything.  And on road testing (or live in testing) is not going to happen.

However, I think there is a big difference between items that fail or shake loose after a few miles down the road (which will not be caught by QC) and items like missing door latches, or options ordered and not installed, which should be.  Those items should be caught by QC and it should not be that hard to have a QC inspection with a copy of the build list to make sure everything ordered was actually installed and all doors/windows/latches/switches/receptacles/appliances actually work.  That might take 2 or 3 hours labor.  I have to think that it takes longer than that to fix things when the rig is brought back in by the customer who is now not as happy as they should be.