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Black Valve

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rvrunner

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Black Valve
« on: December 06, 2018, 09:26:07 pm »
A while back my blinking light on my black valve quit, it worked fine, I thought the light burned out. Today I dumped and the black valve didn't open properly, after working it several times it started working but it doesn't shut off when closed. The nut behind the handle was loose, I tightened it and it works a little better. I think it's out of time. I think I'll just take off the motor and run it manually. When I ordered my 2400 I said I didn't want the electric dump valves, I was told that's the only way they built them, I've since found out Phoenix will build with the manual valves. I can't see any advantage to having the electric valves.

  Lynn

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bftownes

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 10:15:31 pm »
A while back my blinking light on my black valve quit, it worked fine, I thought the light burned out. Today I dumped and the black valve didn't open properly, after working it several times it started working but it doesn't shut off when closed. The nut behind the handle was loose, I tightened it and it works a little better. I think it's out of time. I think I'll just take off the motor and run it manually. When I ordered my 2400 I said I didn't want the electric dump valves, I was told that's the only way they built them, I've since found out Phoenix will build with the manual valves. I can't see any advantage to having the electric valves.

  Lynn

I didn't think I would like the macerator, but after being in the PC for over a month, Ima fan.  I look forward to hearing what you end up doing. 

Cheers  :)(:

Barry T


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Volkemon

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 07:31:44 am »
A while back my blinking light on my black valve quit, it worked fine, I thought the light burned out. Today I dumped and the black valve didn't open properly, after working it several times it started working but it doesn't shut off when closed. The nut behind the handle was loose, I tightened it and it works a little better. I think it's out of time. I think I'll just take off the motor and run it manually. When I ordered my 2400 I said I didn't want the electric dump valves, I was told that's the only way they built them, I've since found out Phoenix will build with the manual valves. I can't see any advantage to having the electric valves.

  Lynn

Well hey!  I am having the same problem. The light didnt work on the black when I got it, and I didnt worry. I removed the macerator to use a 3" hose*... thats when I found out the black valve wasnt closing fully. Ewwwwwww...  :beg  Dont know if its from seal failure or debris in the way blocking it. It appears to have full movement when operating.

I did not notice if the nut was loose. Will check that before major removals! Thanks for that hint.




I put one of the bayonet fitting 'end valve' on the pipe for now, but I have to take the entire drain assembly off the coach to fix the black valve. It is mixing into the grey and giving a smell in the coach.(but only with a tailwind.  (WH) )

On my 2350, the electric valves are borderline necessary due to the valves locations. Its that or 'on the belly' in the dirt.

On yours, if you wanted to go to manual, it LOOKS like the 4 bolt pattern is somewhat universal. If you (or someone you hire) were to take the electric out, it looks like a manual will bolt right in. I will know if they are the same when all is on the ground and apart.  :-D


* I removed the macerator from the plumbing, but left it wired in and tucked it up out of the way. I find a 3" hose has been better for most of our stays NOT boondocking, and I really disliked the way the pump looked dangling off the drivers rear side. Made the coach look like it was an 'intact male' coach...  roflol and was prone to damage.
I am making a storage area for the hose, and will keep it onboard for those times the pump is the best solution. (Like last NYE when we boondocked... and a port-o-let made a VERY handy dump station)



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rvrunner

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2018, 08:38:08 am »
Once my valve is closed the electric actuator still keeps pushing. I think there's 2 bolts and the actuator comes off? I'm down south for the winter, if I can get by I'll have Phoenix look at it next spring, I'm under warranty until April 10. I've had to many things go wrong, most were not Phoenix fault. Microwave replaced, furnace replaced, door fell off fridge, toilet doesn't hold water.

   Lynn

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keelhauler

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2018, 08:40:06 am »
If the actuator fails you do not have to buy a manual valve.

There are two screws that hold the actuator in place. Just remove and work the valve manually.

I just had a failure and had to remove the actuator,

The reason for the failed was my manual valve is working very hard. My PC is 6 years old. In order to clean and lubricate I will have to remove the macerator and spray a silicone lubricant into the valve as I move it open and closed. I haven't tried this yet.

Right now I have to reach underneath to open the manual valve which takes a big hard pull.

I won't try to replace the actuator until I get the valve working freely.

If the light doesn't come on, it means the actuator did not reach the end of its travel.

When mine broke, it sounded like it was working but never moved.

There is a plastic gear in the actuator that broke in half, so it was not attempting to move at all.

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Ron Dittmer

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 08:44:45 am »
As mentioned about debris, it seems logical the valve will naturally have crud and such built up in and around it.  A good cleaning of sorts may make all the difference. Now as for how to accomplish that?????

One thought is the "rush" method.  Fill the black tank to the tippy top.  Open the 3" end cap, the open the tank valve and let everything rush out of the tank and valve area with force.  Maybe there is something hard and solid that will get dislodged.

Follow up with the "hot water and cleaning solution" method.  Open the black tank valve and flood the 3" exit section so the entire valve is soaking in a solution of hot water, bleach, and whatever cleaner you think will loosen crud.  Powdered cleaners should be dissolved in a bucket of hot water, then poured down the toilet.  With the large drain pipe feeling hot, move the valve, preferably by hand to feel the resistance.  Open and close it many times until you feel it's free again.  Hot water is going to make a huge difference compared to warm or colder water.
Ron (& Irene) Dittmer

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rvrunner

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 09:14:35 am »
I use Thetford Drain Valve Lubricant, it makes valves work smooth and easy, you can feel the difference if you open and close the valve manually. That's another downside to electric valves, you can't feel if the valve becomes sticky or hard to open.

  Lynn

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rvrunner

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 09:20:22 am »
If I remove the actuator, do the wires just unplug or do you have to cut them?

  Lynn

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keelhauler

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 03:41:11 pm »
Quote
If I remove the actuator, do the wires just unplug or do you have to cut them?

Unfortunately you have to cut them since they used shrink tube around the connection, but should not be hard to rewire, if hooking back up. 4 wires all different colors.

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Dave

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2018, 09:25:41 am »
Iíve put an end valve on the 3Ē hose outlet.  When the valve gets hard to pull or push I spray silicone spray lube on the shaft. Thatís makes it very easy to operate.  If donít really understand what tthatís works so well.  Because of that I lube the electric valve shafts when they are in the opened position a couple of times a year.  Another problem happens if you close the valve and toilet paper happens to be across the valve opening, it gets pressed into the valve seat and prevents the valve from closing completely.  That calls for a new valve. 

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 12:18:34 pm »
my black valve wouldn't completely close and produced a continuous clicking noise when I held the close button down.  finally removed it and the groove the gate moved into to completely close was filled with "gunk" that was too solid to easily remove.  I had an extra valve, so I replaced it - works perfectly now.

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rvrunner

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2018, 04:46:29 pm »
That's exactly what mine does. Must have build up in the valve.

  Lynn

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rvrunner

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2018, 04:59:55 pm »
Isn't that valve hard to get out?

  Lynn

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lmichael

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2018, 05:39:45 pm »
Valve was easy to remove/install.  Watched several demos online first so I would know what to expect.  Remove nuts, pull out bolts, carefully pry open slightly to free shoulder, pull valve out, reverse to install.  I did drain and flush tank several times before starting.  Make sure rubber gaskets come out with old valve.

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rvrunner

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Re: Black Valve
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2018, 08:21:22 pm »
When my RV was new (8 months ago) it had a plastic cap in the black tank, it finally flushed out. I think there's another foreign object in there.

   Lynn