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2020 Ford E450 cutaway

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Pappy T

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2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« on: December 18, 2018, 09:00:28 pm »
Interesting news, wonder if any rv builders will be using this !
https://www.worktruckonline.com/313956/lightning-systems-debuts-all-electric-ford-e-450-cutaway 
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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 09:35:30 pm »
With a range of 110 miles, it would take forever for us to cross the Great Planes.

I wonder if running the generator while driving will maintain the EV system.  If that works, there will be fuel consumption, but so little by comparison to a V10.

If the generator burns one gallon of fuel per hour.  At 60 miles per hour, that comes to 60 miles to the gallon.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 01:46:41 am by Ron Dittmer »
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donc13

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 07:08:51 am »
With a range of 110 miles, it would take forever for us to cross the Great Planes.

I wonder if running the generator while driving will maintain the EV system.  If that works, there will be fuel consumption, but so little by comparison to a V10.

If the generator burns one gallon of fuel per hour.  At 60 miles per hour, that comes to 60 miles to the gallon.

Well, let's see, the bus on the story has a 220kw motor, our PC has  4kw generator.. So you'd need 220/4 generators to get the same power.... That's 55 generators each using 1 gallon per hour.... Or 55 gallons per hour.

1.09 miles per gallon.

And that presumes you can tuck those 55 generators somewhere and that they don't weigh anything.

:-)


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Ron Dittmer

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 09:55:08 am »
If that is the case, how could you plug the vehicle into an outlet at home and get any kind of useful charge? 
Two or more days to charge the vehicle?   (WH)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 09:59:09 am by Ron Dittmer »
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fandj

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2018, 11:24:07 am »
A 4000 watt generator puts out about 5 hp.  Here is an example of a 6 hp RV.  I suspect it would take quite awhile to cross the Plains in a Conestoga Cruiser. ;)




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donc13

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2018, 02:23:39 pm »
If that is the case, how could you plug the vehicle into an outlet at home and get any kind of useful charge? 
Two or more days to charge the vehicle?   (WH)

You can't plug it into a standard 120v/15a outlet at home.   You need a 220 @50 or more amps per phase for an electric car, and typically 480v @50 or more per phase (3 phase) for larger vehicles.

Power is power, doesn't matter if it comes from real horses, a diesel-electric setup (a railroad locomotive), a battery, electric utility, whatever.  A battery is simply a storage container for electricity.  It takes a lot of power to fill a battery with enough capacity to drive a 12 ton vehicle 110 miles.

Yes, it does take a long time + high voltage (power) to charge an electric car.  Just like you can't use a few D cell batteries to run a golf cart, you can't use a 4kw generator to run a motorhome down a highway.

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Pappy T

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2018, 04:35:31 pm »
Sssoooo , I'm guessing it won't happen anytime soon . Great calculations and comparisons guy's , knowing all that now I know I wouldn't get one even if it was free   :)

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Dynadave

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2018, 06:23:46 pm »
The world and technology is changing at such a fast rate that I donít think most of us can comprehend it. How many of us saw the capability of modern computers coming, or the change in communication systems, the internet, medical marvels. Driverless vehicles are coming and they will be electric or at least hybrid, the only question is when. It may happen faster than we think it will. Maybe virtual rving is next, sure hope not, itís not what I want but the next generation may think itís great! Who knows......????
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CalCruiser

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2018, 07:57:07 pm »
With a range of 110 miles, it would take forever for us to cross the Great Planes.

And when you get  to the Rockies find a tow truck to haul it up the mountain  (exactly)
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donc13

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 08:32:03 pm »
The world and technology is changing at such a fast rate that I donít think most of us can comprehend it. How many of us saw the capability of modern computers coming, or the change in communication systems, the internet, medical marvels. Driverless vehicles are coming and they will be electric or at least hybrid, the only question is when. It may happen faster than we think it will. Maybe virtual rving is next, sure hope not, itís not what I want but the next generation may think itís great! Who knows......????

In the case of electric vehicles, it's not technology, but physics that gets us to 100% electric vehicles.   No matter how you slice it, simple physics says that to move X amount of mass Y distance, Z amount of energy is required.   That is in a frictionless environment.   Gravity, wind drag, mechanical friction are additional energy usage "add-ons".

The electrical power required to charge batteries to replace fossil fueled does not exist in our current electrical grids.

In reality, that means we do not have enough electrical generating capacity to replace the energy released by gasoline and diesel fueled engines to move vehicles.

And we won't have it anytime soon.

Physics.
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jatrax

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2019, 03:31:54 pm »
The new house we are planning will be "Net Zero", meaning it uses no more power (of any kind) than it consumes over a 12 month time period.  This is done by building a tight, well insulated envelope, using passive solar heat gain in winter and energy efficient appliances.  And then sticking a bunch of PV panels on the roof.  The PV array is sized to produce enough to charge an electric vehicle as well as power the house.

@Donc13 is largely correct, the current grid as built and existing today is not capable of powering an instant switch over to electric vehicles.  However, for the average commuter with a PV array on the roof, the grid is not as important and the generating capacity is distributed rather than concentrated as it is now with single large power plants.  Distributed power generation is the future and the power companies are going to fight it tooth and nail.  But it is coming whether they like it or not.  And how much safer is a power grid that relies on 100's of thousands of small generators than one that relies on a few giant power plants that are vulnerable to all manner of things?

An all electric RV is nothing more than a demonstration vehicle right now.  Simply showing it can be done, sort of.  However, numerous (and not wacky) estimates put electric vehicles at 30 to 50% of all new cars purchased within 10 years.  Ford has already announced that an all electric F-150 will show in 2020 or 2021. 

This Winnebago all electric demonstrator is just a demonstrator, but it shows people are putting real money into a shift over the next 20 years from gas / diesel to electric.

And here is one that is nearly ready to go: Iridium EV  Not likely to be popular in the US market but if your RV life style is a less than 100 mile trip to a weekend campground this will work and will be available, (they say), in 2019.

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2 Frazzled

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 05:44:36 pm »
JTrax, love it! My hope is that once we settle down, our home will be net zero.

Comment on the power grid: we toured Bonneville Dam years back. It is on the Columbia River near Portland, OR. They have three or four massive generators in there churning out hydro power from the river but only one was "on line" and running while we were there. Our guide told us it was because there was no need for the electricity... this was during the massive brown outs and rolling black outs in California. It's possible Bonneville's grid had no way to connect to California's grid. It's possible power is regulated to control the price. It's possible I'm easily confused, but it made no sense to me. It made me wonder what the difference is between the green power we are capable of producing and what is actually produced.
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CalCruiser

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2019, 07:05:33 pm »
2 Frazzled- It's because the rolling blackouts in CA  were an illusion that was part of  a fraudulent scheme created by Enron. California had recently deregulated  electricity and created an ISO (independent system operator) to manage it. Enron rigged the software and even manipulated it to show some supply as load, basically running the meters in reverse to jack up the spot price based on the  demand critically exceeding available  supply. This forced the state into long term contracts at much higher rates. It resulted in a recall election with Arnold Schwareznegger becoming Governor of CA. His administration sued to recover the billions of  dollars stolen from the state treasury, which had to step in when  Bank of America refused to lend more money to buy electricity. The FERC ruled against CA, Enron filed for bankruptcy protection, and Ken Lay conveniently departed to the great beyond.

Sorry for the thread hijack.
Carry on.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 08:13:54 pm by CalCruiser »
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jatrax

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2019, 11:28:56 pm »
I'm been to Bonneville numerous times, it's one of my favorite stops.  There are a number of factors that determine how many turbines are running.  One is that the amount of water they dump is regulated to keep the fish happy, regardless of whether they need the power.  The other is the massive wind farm just east of them.  As I understand it the grid (not sure if that is Bonneville, the state, the feds or somebody else) is contractually obligated to accept all the power the wind farm makes.  So at times Bonneville has to idle turbines to keep the wind farm owners happy.

There was a big stink about this a couple years ago.  Bonneville was required to dump water to keep the flow high for the fish but they could not put power into the grid because the wind farm was producing all that was needed.  They shut off the wind farm, because they feared the endangered species act more than the wind farm.  Wind farm owners sued and it got ugly.  They eventually worked it but I never heard how.

This just points out that we have an aging, antiquated and disconnected grid run by a mix of for profit power companies, state political agendas, and federal regulators.  One the big issues with renewable power is that the grid is not capable of the flexibility required.  Estimates are that we can get to 15% maybe 20% renewable but that is it.  After that we don't have the ability to ramp up or down fast enough when wind or solar come on or off.  This is especially evident at sunset.  Daytime is the biggest time of use for electricity, followed by the dinner hour right after sunset.  With solar on all day things are great, but just as solar goes out for the night there is a big spike in use as everyone gets home, fires up the TV, computer, lights and makes dinner.  The power companies have about 20 minutes from solar going down to bring enough fossil fuel plants on line to handle the load. 

The only fix is a combination of distributed storage and a more flexible grid.  Distributed storage is great if you are in California they will practically pay for it right now.  The state badly needs more buffering capacity and they have decided on site batteries are the way to go.  I'm not so sure as the cost of on site battery storage is *I think) still prohibitive.  But if the state is paying?  Well why not.

https://news.energysage.com/california-energy-storage-incentives-sgip-explained/

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Volkemon

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Re: 2020 Ford E450 cutaway
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2019, 09:45:20 am »
If that is the case, how could you plug the vehicle into an outlet at home and get any kind of useful charge? 
Two or more days to charge the vehicle?   (WH)

All due respect to Don13, but he is a little off on specs. Level 1 and 2 systems (120V and 240V) are installed in residential settings, and level 3 (3 phase) in commercial.

Level 1 Charging
This is the slow charging route that uses a standard 120 volt power outlet. Electric cars sometimes have the option of designating either a flow rate of 8 or 12 amps. If you are plugging into a dedicated electrical circuit then you should be able to charge at the 12 amp rate. Best case scenario is you might be able to squeeze five miles of range per hour of charge on a 12 amp load. If pulling 8 amps you can plan on three miles per hour. The difference between 8 and 12 amps is the higher amperage rating will charge your car faster. Eight amps is like a trickle charger and it will take 12 hours to charge a Volt and probably 24 hours to charge electric vehicles with a larger battery. A Tesla Model S might take a few days to charge this way.

Level 2 Charging
This is what you really want to install. Level 2 stations will typically allow your car to fully charge your car in 4 hours. While a Level 1 connector feeds 120 volts into your car, a Level 2 station can feed 240 volts that will charge your car in half the time of a Level 1. Not all Level 2 charge stations are created equal. Cars like the Volt, some Leafs, and the Chevrolet Spark EV contain a lower capacity charger and can only process 3.6 kWh into the car. A real bummer, because commercial charge stations and many home units can supply 7.2 kWh. My Volt will charge and deliver 38 miles of range in about 4 hours using the 3.6 kWh charging system. My Honda Fit EV will fully charge with 80 miles of range in about 3 hours using a 7.2 kWh charging system.

Level 3 Charging Stations
You can't install one of these in the home as they require three phase power. These chargers pump a lot of electricity into your car to quickly charge your car. While a Level 2 station can feed about 7000 watts into your car, this monster feeds more than 25,000 watts. We are talking 80% capacity in about a half hour. The problem with this technology, is according to reports, may shorten the long term life of the battery. Every so often it is ok, but if you want your battery to last you do not want to be doing this daily. Not all cars are compatible with this technology either. Tesla has a different protocol than other auto manufacturers and is not compatible with DC fast chargers other than those at Tesla owned stations. For home use focus on Level 1 and 2.

Above pulled from here - http://www.evelectricity.com/charging/   I tried to select relevant parts for those who only read it here.


And about the 100 mile range... its not really made for campers.  roflol This tech is primarily for 'last mile' delivery trucks, doing urban deliveries,  where 100 miles a day might be just fine. The lack of tailpipe emissions in that environment is very desirable.